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[Descan]

NOT GOOD ENOUGH, DAMNIT

* Descan invades, annexes part of Mr. Space Cat and holds a referendum in his spleen.

You're next, Baltic states General Discussion.

[LordSlowpoke]

oi

OI

* LordSlowpoke rips out spleen

i claimed the title of the organ trafficker of bay12 years ago

you don't just cut out my most important source of income like that

[Kadzar]

I was again reminded of the Santa Barbara shooting, and it still just depresses me so much thinking about it. I kinda feel like we need to discuss it or something, but I still don't know what to say about it.

It's just so weird, the situation, since the guy's motivation was apparently sexual frustration. Which is what makes it weird, since it's a thing that normal people can kind of relate to. I mean, I don't think I've ever believed that women owed me affection (unless maybe I'm misremembering some part of my more unenlightened youth), and the idea that he felt it was justifiable to shoot people because women wouldn't have sex with him is nothing short of reprehensible. But it's not some dude who's xenophobic or has some weird political agenda, like how it usually is; the guy was lonely, something most people have felt at some point or another.

Not that I'm in any way defending the guy. He was an utter douche. Seriously, fuck that guy. Or, not even that, but rather that one Russian word that's like "fuck" but has no sexual connotations and is just purely an insult. He failed to see women as people but rather as objects that failed to live up to their purpose by serving his needs.

And the sick thing is that he wasn't the first person to think like this. He was backed up by a culture that says a man isn't a man if he's still a virgin. One that says if you're a good enough guy, you'll get a girl in the end, never mind what she thinks of it, she's just the prize. One where some people think rape is okay in certain situations, that sometimes women "deserve" it.

I don't know what to say about the situation, and even more I don't know what to do about it, but I feel like it's a thing we can't just ignore, even though I have no idea what we should even do about it.

EDIT: I think the thing that really gets to me about it is that people died because of this guy's "Nice Guy" ideals. It's just such a senselessly stupid thing for people to be killed over. It's not like he was trying to effect some sort of political change or had some sort of belief in the righteousness of what he was doing. He was just trying to prove to everyone what a big macho man he was, and how all the ladies totally should have done him. He was a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted.

Okay, that's enough rambling from me on this topic.

[Lord Shonus]

According to his family, he was diagnosed with some degree of Asperger's syndrome, which quite likely contributed to the situation. Failure to properly process social cues is, after all, a prime symptom, and the result is quite often severe social separation. Based on his recorded statements, he seemed to regard most of society, particularly the female half, as actively malicious and derogatory towards him, so the rage that built up isn't entirely surprising.

How someone with the obvious mental problems seen in his videos managed to obtain not one but three handguns does indicate a pretty severe failure of the regulatory system, just as much as one must wonder how family and acquaintances failed to realize anything of this sort was coming.

[hops]

You already answered your own question. It's culture. If we're going to fix anything then we have to deal with the culture.

This is why we need feminism. Sure, there /are/ some people whose feminism are bordering misandry, but the scale is so fucking tipped towards men that earning women some more privileges isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Lord Shonus]

This is hardly a situation "feminism" would have helped with in the least. If he were a rational actor convinced that women "owed" him their physical affections, then you might have the faintest ghost of a point. He was quite clearly *not* a rational actor, and his rambling statements quite clearly suggest that he believed in a vast conspiracy to render him inferior. Even if he'd managed to find a woman interested in him, it is even money that this would have happened anyway, quite possibly triggered by comments from said woman. In other words, the primary breakdown here was the lack of proper mental health care, not the social role of women.

[LordSlowpoke]

You already answered your own question. It's culture. If we're going to fix anything then we have to deal with the culture.

This is why we need feminism. Sure, there /are/ some people whose feminism are bordering misandry, but the scale is so fucking tipped towards men that earning women some more privileges isn't necessarily a bad thing.

* LordSlowpoke slaps

first of all we need the main movement to step the fuck up and disavow the fringes

second we need for feminism to actually do something about men other than dismantling their previous gender role and leaving them to figure out the rest themselves

third, what shonus said, this is a mental health issue not a feminism issue

[Tack]

I didn't expect to start making everyone introspective. Sorry all.
But then again, whenever I'm writing a post, I don't generally think 'Does this sound angsty?'. Instead usually an hour later I go 'Fuck that was angsty. Edit!'

Also, feminism. Sometimes I wonder what I'm missing out on as a conservative cis cauc hetero.

[Glowcat]

And yet again the mentally ill are cast as the perpetrators of violence as if it was a causation (despite most people with mental illnesses never engaging in violent acts) while the problems of the culture are swept under the rug...

It wasn't just him. This is not an individual problem. The only illness at fault here is a cultural one.

http://vampmissedith.tumblr.com/post/86760365640/when-i-was-a-freshman-my-sister-was-in-eighth
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03/27/danielle-dentremont-queens-attacked_n_5045110.html
http://blog.quinnipiac.edu/blog/2014/04/25/professor-fatal-school-stabbing-fits-a-familiar-pattern-of-mens-violence-against-women/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

Should I also link all the online comments by dudes cheering the guy's actions and blaming women? Or am I going to get the typical excuse that they're all trolls and nobody really means it...

[hops]

Yeah, I mean while mental illness is a contributing factor, it's pretty insulting to the mentally ill to say that said illness is the whole reason why said person is being a psychopath.

[Vector]

.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It wasn't just him. This is not an individual problem. The only illness at fault here is a cultural one.

... You're really going to tell me that extreme violence is not a symptom of mental problems but rather societal conditioning?

[Lord Shonus]

Is it incorrect to claim that mentally ill persons are often unable to cope with situations that well adjusted persons cannot? Or is it incorrect to suggest that extreme social ostracism, real or perceived, is one of the most - if not THE most - destructive forces in the human psyche? The human mind has limits beyond which it cannot function, and mental illness renders those limits both incredibly variable and extremely fragile. Labeling the results of the failure of those limits as something that "feminism" can solve rather than investing in the sort of help individuals with these problems need merely guarantees that the problem will never be reduced, let alone solved.

[Vector]

.

[Glowcat]

Is it incorrect to claim that mentally ill persons are often unable to cope with situations that well adjusted persons cannot? Or is it incorrect to suggest that extreme social ostracism, real or perceived, is one of the most - if not THE most - destructive forces in the human psyche?

No, it's incorrect to say mental illness was the cause and to label every person who releases their frustrations with the world in a violent manner to be mentally ill as if one automatically implies the other.