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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9714365 times)

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70725 on: March 06, 2014, 05:41:17 pm »

No, it sounds like it's a minority of policemen who are exceptionally violent and horrible, but there's an institutional defensiveness and a good ol' buys' club atmosphere that prevents anything from happening to them. Also because people are worried that police without protections from prosecution would be far less effective, those protections stand even in the face of clear abuses.
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Dutchling

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70726 on: March 06, 2014, 05:41:36 pm »

Yeah, I've heard plenty of horror stories from US law enforcement and related institutions.

Like having to stay months in a high security prison for having your visa expired for a few days. I can only assume half of that was spent getting raped.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70727 on: March 06, 2014, 05:45:04 pm »

No, it sounds like it's a minority of policemen who are exceptionally violent and horrible, but there's an institutional defensiveness and a good ol' buys' club atmosphere that prevents anything from happening to them. Also because people are worried that police without protections from prosecution would be far less effective, those protections stand even in the face of clear abuses.
What would definitely help is making the police carry cameras (with the legislation further stating that it shall be assumed that if the police lose the footage it contained something against the state's case) and complimenting that by downgrading police testimony to the same level as everybody else's. It's been tried and proven very effective against both police brutality and malicious complaints from civilians.
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Dutchling

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70728 on: March 06, 2014, 05:47:51 pm »

Nationwide bodycams are getting implemented here too. Definitely a step forward imo, although here it's mostly useful for identifying suspects.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70729 on: March 06, 2014, 05:48:27 pm »

It would also help to make it specifically illegal for a policeman to order someone to stop filming or taking photographs, or to single out a photographer from a crowd to arrest or remove from the area.
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70730 on: March 06, 2014, 05:48:30 pm »

Is the US allergic to accountability or what?
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70731 on: March 06, 2014, 05:53:04 pm »

Yeah, pretty much. "No news is good news" has two meanings, after all. Lack of news being a good thing, and any news at all not being a good thing. Many institutions in the states do what they can to embrace the import of that latter one.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70732 on: March 06, 2014, 05:54:08 pm »

Is the US allergic to accountability or what?
No, it just hasn't been focused on previously. Now our crime rate has dropped so far that the police are starting to ferment the crime instead of stopping it, so changes must be made.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70733 on: March 06, 2014, 05:56:09 pm »

Yeah, by this point I'm fairly well convinced there is no situation that would result in me calling the police for help.
I will if I want someone dead. Which is pretty much solely limited to witnessing a murder spree.

Same here.... though it's questionable if you'll get any benefit from doing so, even then.

Here's a story where police on an NY subway watched from behind a locked door as someone fought with a crazed knife-wielding psychopath who had been on a 28-hour killing spree, and then didn't care to offer the guy the slightest medical aid for hours after he succeeded in subduing the guy, nearly allowing him to bleed to death.

The guy sued the police for standing by and watching, and the department responded in court that they had no responsibility to protect him.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 05:57:41 pm by SalmonGod »
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70734 on: March 06, 2014, 05:57:26 pm »

Is the US allergic to accountability or what?
No, it just hasn't been focused on previously.
I don't believe you.

Yeah, by this point I'm fairly well convinced there is no situation that would result in me calling the police for help.
I will if I want someone dead. Which is pretty much solely limited to witnessing a murder spree.

Same here.... though it's questionable if you'll get any benefit from doing so, even then.

Here's a story where police on an NY subway watched from behind a locked door as someone fought with a crazed knife-wielding psychopath who had been on a 28-hour killing spree, and then didn't care to offer the guy the slightest medical aid for hours after he succeeded in subduing the guy, nearly allowing him to bleed to death.

The guy sued the police for standing by and watching, and the department responded in court that they had no responsibility to protect him.
So Seattle is actually worse than Gotham?
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SalmonGod

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70735 on: March 06, 2014, 05:59:03 pm »

Yeah, by this point I'm fairly well convinced there is no situation that would result in me calling the police for help.
I will if I want someone dead. Which is pretty much solely limited to witnessing a murder spree.

Same here.... though it's questionable if you'll get any benefit from doing so, even then.

Here's a story where police on an NY subway watched from behind a locked door as someone fought with a crazed knife-wielding psychopath who had been on a 28-hour killing spree, and then didn't care to offer the guy the slightest medical aid for hours after he succeeded in subduing the guy, nearly allowing him to bleed to death.

The guy sued the police for standing by and watching, and the department responded in court that they had no responsibility to protect him.
So Seattle is actually worse than Gotham?

That was New York.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70736 on: March 06, 2014, 05:59:27 pm »

Oh. Missed that bit.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70737 on: March 06, 2014, 06:01:26 pm »

Is the US allergic to accountability or what?

Just lazy and selfish.

We want civil rights but we don't want to do any work to maintain them.
We want a government that isn't corrupt but aren't willing to hold politicians' toes in the fire on it.
We want laws that make sense but we don't want to do anything more than vote in a state senator every other year. Understanding the law is hard!
We want the lid blown off of news stories about corruption, waste, corporate misbehavior, pollution, etc. but we don't want to maintain a trained, accountable industry of journalists.
We want inexpensive health care but we aren't willing to destroy the useless health-insurance middlemen.
We want peace but war is easier and makes for better TV.
We want to be healthy but cooking delicious meals at home is hard and McDonald's is fast and cheap.
We want to be lean and strong but working out takes time and hardship, so we pop pills that we know won't work.
We want high-paying desk jobs but we don't want to have to go to college for math or a hard science to do it.
We want cheap foreign-made goods but we want other Americans to buy expensive domestic goods so Americans can have production jobs.
We want privacy but we want to know every other American's private business.
We want freedom to practice and acceptance of our religion but not all the other wacko cults out there.
We want to be the one with the fastest car on the road.
We want to live in a huge house on the cheap but let everyone else live in expensive shoebox apartments.
We want nearby natural spaces but we also don't want to have to drive more than 10 minutes to work.
We want eternal youth and beauty in a universe of entropy and inevitable death.
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Shakerag

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70738 on: March 06, 2014, 06:02:42 pm »

Well if more police abuse horror is your thing, there's always Photography Is Not A Crime.

Which has also convinced me to never contact the police for anything.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #70739 on: March 06, 2014, 06:03:23 pm »

Is the US allergic to accountability or what?
No, it just hasn't been focused on previously.
I don't believe you.
What you believe does not change the reality of the matter. The American people aren't against accountability. We've just spent so long in the culture of trusting the police that it isn't going to break down overnight. Fortunately, I think the infamous American paranoia of tyranny will go a long way towards getting people to wake up. My opinion of the police is pretty much the norm among people my age, even middle-class white ones (which I understand is a major change from back in the day).
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
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