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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9465463 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56475 on: December 17, 2012, 04:08:56 pm »

Hans, please come back to us!
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56476 on: December 17, 2012, 04:10:42 pm »

Snack sheeple!? Oh god, no!
Open your eyes to the machinations of the Kit Kat oppressors!
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Something Evil

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56477 on: December 17, 2012, 04:36:00 pm »

I dunno, having been kicked nearly to death by someone tweaking out on meth, I find it hard to be sad about the war on drugs.
The war on drugs is the government/populace equivalent of hitting kids in the head with a hammer because they missed their bed time.

[...]

And that's... well, it's an unsympathetic position, to put it lightly. Equivalent to "I'm not sad about dogfighting rings because a dog bit me once". It's kind of disturbing, to be honest.
That's a strained pair of analogies if I've ever seen any. You're making it seem as if the people performing violent crime to get money for another hit or back their drug ring in some way or other are completely without consent in this matter, much like an animal directed to a purpose it can't grasp intellectually, or a child unable to protect one's self from abuse. This, frankly, is insulting to those in legal and/or medical problems due to drugs because it assumes them completely powerless and irresponsible and exonerating them of all blame, and insulting to victims of abuse because the analogy trivializes their ordeal.

*sigh*
First off.
The idea of the war on drugs is to try to dismantle the massive organized crime institutions that have been formed through drug distribution and ancillary crimes. The fact that someone gets mangled by the gears is of little importance in the short run. The main idea is to combat the spread and power of an organization that is inherently dangerous due to its practices and motives. What ends up mattering after a couple years, however, is the deluge of users and expendable small-fry dealers that clog up jails, while the heads of the operation field private armies and stake out territories with impunity, short of shelling the bastards with artillery fire.

Secondly.
Legalizing it would be a message that it's okay to experiment with high risk drugs and get addicted and/or catch AIDS/Hep C/god-knows-what-else, because even if the state takes a monopoly on it, it'll still be cheaper to buy from back-alley dealers because they have lower production, transport and distribution costs and can undercut the state-backed competition. So you're back to square one.
Besides. It's not like you can put a condom on the needle and get the high, without the neurological after-effects, which are the main reason someone does stupid things while on drugs.

Thirdly,
If it's a law, and it doesn't unjustifiably limit your freedoms, you fucking obey it, as silly, ridiculous, or pointless as it may seem at first glance. Because, maybe, just maybe, a legislative body elected by you and your own peers got together, talked about a real problem with real effects, and that law was the best they could come up with, either by their educational, intellectual, informational or social limitations. So maybe, just maybe, that law has a point in being there.
The moment you willingly disobey a law, even doing it as a political statement, you do so at your own expense, fully knowing the consequences. If you're not willing to accept those consequences, how'bout, say... not breaking the law?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, after I've said that, I also need to say that a good part of the problem is that the legislature concerning these substances is made, at best, by lawschool graduates, or, at worst, by movie moguls and turnip farmers, instead, of, say, social analysts and neurochemists. Hell, the growth of textile hemp is outlawed because it's in the same family as pot, whereas hemp is potentially a far more sustainable biofuel crop. It's also why rehab and research centers addressing these very problems work below their optimum.
This is also the problem with many of the "educational" campaigns about the effects of drugs, that are run with a political or economic agenda, and often skew data regarding their own effectiveness, and often end up actually backfiring and increasing drug use, due to being created by people who, again, have no clue what they're doing, even in the noblest if intentions.


So, we need to educate our legislators. By someone actually documented enough do do the educating. Then let's let them (maybe even help them, *cough*FreeInternetAct*cough*) make some informed, coherent laws that don't harm the people that they're supposed to protect. Then we need to educate ourselves and others about the full effects these substances have on ourselves and on others. Then, we need to see what we can do for those who've damaged their lives and those whose lives have been damaged by the former.
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Helgoland

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56478 on: December 17, 2012, 04:41:10 pm »

I'd like to drop this here. The guy's up there with Huxley, Hofmann and Marquardt in the field of psychomorphic chemistry.

(Pronbably not the thread for this, but still.)
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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56479 on: December 17, 2012, 04:49:31 pm »

Hell, the growth of textile hemp is outlawed because it's in the same family as pot, whereas hemp is potentially a far more sustainable biofuel crop.

The ban on hemp growing has far more to do with the cotton lobby. Pressure from cotton growers is why it was banned in the first place, as it's a much more practical (though less profitable) fiber crop.
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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56480 on: December 17, 2012, 04:50:55 pm »

Hell, the growth of textile hemp is outlawed because it's in the same family as pot, whereas hemp is potentially a far more sustainable biofuel crop.

The ban on hemp growing has far more to do with the cotton lobby. Pressure from cotton growers is why it was banned in the first place, as it's a much more practical (though less profitable) fiber crop.

There was a similair problem with Stevia and the sugar lobby.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56481 on: December 17, 2012, 04:57:16 pm »

First off.
The idea of the war on drugs is to try to dismantle the massive organized crime institutions that have been formed through drug distribution and ancillary crimes.
They are thriving and oh so many are dead and dying ever more. Something around 100,000 drug cartel foot soldiers floating around Mexico IIRC. It's turned into an excuse for private prisons to make lots of money ruining people's lives, ensuring they are confined to purely lives of crime - which makes prison sales go up. Elsewhere it's funding massive organised crime and somehow still gets into the hand of consumers. Oh yeah, that's because they're the only people dealing, as opposed to legit distributors.

The fact that someone gets mangled by the gears is of little importance in the short run.
*756 people out of every 100,000 people in the United states of America are incarcerated for drug use.

The main idea is to combat the spread and power of an organization that is inherently dangerous due to its practices and motives. What ends up mattering after a couple years, however, is the deluge of users and expendable small-fry dealers that clog up jails, while the heads of the operation field private armies and stake out territories with impunity, short of shelling the bastards with artillery fire.
When they're a part of your populace it's kinda hard to take them out without killing your populace. Because you know, they are your populace.

Secondly.
Legalizing it would be a message that it's okay to experiment with high risk drugs and get addicted and/or catch AIDS/Hep C/god-knows-what-else
Scandinavia would like to disagree...
From a standpoint I know, in the UK everything is practically illegal but practically everyone has tried weed before if not smoking it (official statistics say 1/3 people). That message is not working.
Oh and you seem to ball drugs all together as one ball of /ohgoditisbadmmmmkay/, even though a helluva lot of them are less harmful, addictive and much more safer than alcohol.

because even if the state takes a monopoly on it, it'll still be cheaper to buy from back-alley dealers because they have lower production, transport and distribution costs and can undercut the state-backed competition. So you're back to square one.
A government subsidied company focused on profit would fail at seeking profit? I don't exactly go down to my local shady alleyway and shout "yo mate, got some weetabix?"

Besides. It's not like you can put a condom on the needle and get the high, without the neurological after-effects, which are the main reason someone does stupid things while on drugs.
Education. Heroin is one of those things people stay the fuck away from if they're sane. Kinda funny how its illegal status has no effect on this status whatsoever; maybe because it's actually a harmful drug as opposed to marijuana?

If it's a law, and it doesn't unjustifiably limit your freedoms, you fucking obey it, as silly, ridiculous, or pointless as it may seem at first glance.
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Respect mah authoratah

This is also the problem with many of the "educational" campaigns about the effects of drugs, that are run with a political or economic agenda, and often skew data regarding their own effectiveness, and often end up actually backfiring and increasing drug use, due to being created by people who, again, have no clue what they're doing, even in the noblest if intentions.
Yeah maybe in America. You guys might want to stop the political corruption first. The ads, the polarizing - especially the bribery and the wanton abuse of laws. Irony.

fqllve

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56482 on: December 17, 2012, 04:58:48 pm »

The idea of the war on drugs is to try to dismantle the massive organized crime institutions that have been formed through drug distribution and ancillary crimes. The fact that someone gets mangled by the gears is of little importance in the short run. The main idea is to combat the spread and power of an organization that is inherently dangerous due to its practices and motives. What ends up mattering after a couple years, however, is the deluge of users and expendable small-fry dealers that clog up jails, while the heads of the operation field private armies and stake out territories with impunity, short of shelling the bastards with artillery fire.
Except criminalization is what creates the black market in the first place. Are most illicit drugs terrible and harmful not only to the person using them but to society as a whole? Yes, of course. But the black market is orders of magnitude worse.

Also, there's a thread on this now.
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Something Evil

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56483 on: December 17, 2012, 05:00:21 pm »

Hell, the growth of textile hemp is outlawed because it's in the same family as pot, whereas hemp is potentially a far more sustainable biofuel crop.

The ban on hemp growing has far more to do with the cotton lobby. Pressure from cotton growers is why it was banned in the first place, as it's a much more practical (though less profitable) fiber crop.
Not really. Hemp fiber is a lot tougher and needs more processing to reach the same fineness as cotton.
It's mostly corn and forestry lobbyists in the U.S., corn being the main crop used for biofuel, while hemp can also be used in thermal insulation and to replace some wood-based products like paper, fiberboard and a few other stuff.
But this is kinda veering off topic.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56484 on: December 17, 2012, 05:03:27 pm »

corn being the main crop used for biofuel
Every time I see stuff like this I want to start an energy >9k rage thread.

Skyrunner

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56485 on: December 17, 2012, 05:20:39 pm »

Biofuel is just stupid :/
Input uses more oil than the equivalent of the energy output.
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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56486 on: December 17, 2012, 05:22:59 pm »

Biofuel is just stupid :/
Input uses more oil than the equivalent of the energy output.
yup, at least for corn. Some of the other bio-fuels are better than break even, but not by any significant margin.
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Helgoland

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56487 on: December 17, 2012, 05:27:15 pm »

I read somewhere that algae are quite good with regards to energy converted/area. Still maintenance-heavy though, I guess...

I jusst hope they'll get ITER in Cadarache to work soon.
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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56488 on: December 17, 2012, 05:28:54 pm »

Especially considering the huge quantity of fuel and water (aka energy), used to farm nowadays.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #56489 on: December 17, 2012, 05:32:52 pm »

Biofuel is just stupid :/
Input uses more oil than the equivalent of the energy output.
yup, at least for corn. Some of the other bio-fuels are better than break even, but not by any significant margin.
I got a rant somewhere around these forums about this. There are good biofuels that do not compete for food, are carbon neutral and hardy things. There's a weed that complements tea plants (provides shade) is nitrogen fixing (OH HELL YEAH), native to pretty much everywhere in the tropics and can be turned into pellets for exporting, as well as burned in some coal plants.
Everyone North and South though should just stop and switch to nuclear/import.

Looking at you America. Stop trying to profit out of destruction.
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