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[Owlbread]

*brohugs Owlbread*

I feel for you man. I am from the US and, in contrast to what RedKing said, I wouldn't expect you to be happy or proud facing what you are facing. To see one's culture ripped to shreds is a tragic thing, like a part of yourself is being removed.

It's like losing an arm or a leg. Sure, you can use a prosthetic, but it's just not the same.


That being said, I'm not condemning all past imperialization or conquering. The economic and political factors are too complex for me to judge in such a simple manner, especially since it all happened before I was even born.

Thank you very much, it's a weird thing. I know a lot of Scots won't see this the way I do but I don't know if they can't see or won't see. Even though I can try to carry parts of the culture I'd like to preserve within me, I don't think it's possible for me to preserve it on my own, let alone on the scale that this needs to be done.

And to Redking, I don't think becoming independent again is the only way to preserve us, but I think it's by far the easiest and one of the only options we have available right now. Becoming independent won't magically solve this problem, but it will make it much easier to solve because people will be forced to look at their Scottishness. Right now it's possible to move to Scotland and consider yourself British, not Scottish, just as a lot of immigrants are doing now in England. Many people who move to Scotland from other parts of the UK (the south of England for instance) simply don't assimilate, meaning that it's the natives who change. Even if their kids do assimilate, the local culture and language has been changed hugely. It's not their fault, it's just a symptom of the problems created by the British state. (The confederate flag stuff is an interesting topic, but I'd get sucked into talking about stuff I don't know enough about).

The other problem Kaijyuu is that even if we went out and studied traditions and songs and language and all that stuff in Scotland you wouldn't get it all down on paper or in a study. Trying to get this hypothetically homogenized "North Britain" to take these customs on again is another story.

I also know many Davidsons, but I do not know where their clan territory is. Do tell good sir.

[kaijyuu]

Even though I can try to carry parts of the culture I'd like to preserve within me, I don't think it's possible for me to preserve it on my own, let alone on the scale that this needs to be done.

Certainly you're not the only one who cares? There are societies dedicated to this exact thing you can participate in.

The other problem Kaijyuu is that even if we went out and studied traditions and songs and language and all that stuff in Scotland you wouldn't get it all down on paper or in a study.

I can see this being an issue, but all things fade in time. Preserve what you can.

Trying to get this hypothetically homogenized "North Britain" to take these customs on again is another story.

I'd find it quite... unsettling? offensive? if you tried to get someone to take upon a culture and customs they don't want, anyway. That's for them to decide, not you. You can educate, but getting people to go back to the old ways isn't a good goal, imo.

[Pnx]

I guess it's just hard to hold with that kind of mentality in the US. I mean, we're ALL immigrants here (well, all but the ones we fucked over and stuck on reservations) and we keep alive certain portions of our "old" culture (to varying extents) but still embrace the new as well. If we didn't, the US would have dissolved into Ethniklashistan long ago.

No offence but I'm pretty sure that everyone being immigrants hasn't stopped people thinking like that. The political stage certainly seems to have a lot of bunk thrown around about keeping a hold of American values and traditions.

[Owlbread]

Even though I can try to carry parts of the culture I'd like to preserve within me, I don't think it's possible for me to preserve it on my own, let alone on the scale that this needs to be done.

Certainly you're not the only one who cares? There are societies dedicated to this exact thing you can participate in.

The other problem Kaijyuu is that even if we went out and studied traditions and songs and language and all that stuff in Scotland you wouldn't get it all down on paper or in a study.

I can see this being an issue, but all things fade in time. Preserve what you can.

Trying to get this hypothetically homogenized "North Britain" to take these customs on again is another story.

I'd find it quite... unsettling? offensive? if you tried to get someone to take upon a culture and customs they don't want, anyway. That's for them to decide, not you. You can educate, but getting people to go back to the old ways isn't a good goal, imo.

I'm not saying we should force anyone to take on stuff they don't want, I'm saying that we should be promoting things like the Scots leid through television and primary school education on a large scale. This kind of thing wouldn't last very long or be considered worthwhile if we remain provincial - enough people are already damning the amount of money spent by the government on preserving the Gaelic language to hell, despite the figures paling in comparison to the amount spent by the British government on nuclear weapons, and despite the fact that the Gaelic is a unique language native to this country. Imagine what they'd think of Scots. Most of my knowledge of Scottish songs came from primary school when we'd all sit by our tables at assembly and sing along with the headmaster and his guitar. If I hadn't had that I wouldn't have the precious little knowledge that I do have now. The Irish in the republic are, in a way, really killing off the Irish language by forcing people to learn it, so it becomes a chore. I think we could accomplish great things through positive encouragement rather than forcing people to do stuff.

But, again, I sincerely doubt that this is going to happen.

[RedKing]

I guess it's just hard to hold with that kind of mentality in the US. I mean, we're ALL immigrants here (well, all but the ones we fucked over and stuck on reservations) and we keep alive certain portions of our "old" culture (to varying extents) but still embrace the new as well. If we didn't, the US would have dissolved into Ethniklashistan long ago.

No offence but I'm pretty sure that everyone being immigrants hasn't stopped people thinking like that. The political stage certainly seems to have a lot of bunk thrown around about keeping a hold of American values and traditions.

That's my point. Beyond pandering in a few powerful enclaves (most big cities on the East Coast have a Little Italy, most on the West have a Chinatown), they're not appealing to "Anglo-American" values or "German-American" values (well, other than maybe some places up along the Great Lakes...). You certainly don't hear a candidate talking about Hmong-American values or Senegalese-American values. It's just "American". There's all kinds of fraternal organizations and historical societies to preserve those elements, but the general cultural impetus here has always been to assimilate. When my grandmother's family came here, all they spoke was Volga German. Once the kids started learning English, their parents forbade them from speaking German. I don't agree with that kind of "burn the boats" mentality either, but it's an indication of how strong the assimilation urge used to be.

@Darvi: Which clan?

@Owlbread: There's two branches, Davidson of Tulloch and the main branch which was around Ayrshire, if memory serves right. They were never very prominent after (tradition holds) getting into a big fight with the MacPhersons and getting their asses royally handed to them. Mine were of the main branch and left for the Colonies sometime in the early 1600s.

[Darvi]

@Darvi: Which clan?

You only ask so you can find me easier do you.

But at least I like the tartan colours.

[Owlbread]

@Owlbread: There's two branches, Davidson of Tulloch and the main branch which was around Ayrshire, if memory serves right. They were never very prominent after (tradition holds) getting into a big fight with the MacPhersons and getting their asses royally handed to them. Mine were of the main branch and left for the Colonies sometime in the early 1600s.

Now, Ayrshire. There's a place that keeps the old ways alive. One also has to love a good Ayrshire accent. I've got some recordings you could listen to so ye cuid hae yer wee bit craick.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/text-only/scotland/kilmarnock/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAqBuwKJXoM

[RedKing]

My wife has ancestors on both sides of the border, Kerr/Carr. Border Reivers Noble Protectors of the Realm. 

[Pnx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAqBuwKJXoM

You know when I was young I never used to have trouble understanding people with thick accents, but these days... not so much. Maybe it's got something to do with moving to America or just the general cementing of my brain. *sigh*

[MonkeyHead]

One disadvantage Scotland has had in terms of retaining its Scottishness is the loss of its own language (treating the Scottish english dialect as not quite its own language here...) as an in use day to day entity. It is something that here in Wales we have clung on to with a mixture of pride, desperation and stubbornness, and its one of the clear unique identifiers (which pretty much all our cultural traits are hung upon) we have as a nation/people to seperate us from a homogenised mass.

[The Darkling Wolf]

All I think of when I hear about Welsh is "Slow, Arab"

[MonkeyHead]

You mean "Araf"... 

[The Darkling Wolf]

Have an incredibly low quality video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fy14cnyGif8#t=32s

[Reudh]

I'm a member of two Scottish Clan Associations (Gunn and Davidson),

Then we are bros!

I hail from the MacGregor clan. Direct descendant of Rob Roy.

[Owlbread]

I'm a member of two Scottish Clan Associations (Gunn and Davidson),

Then we are bros!

I hail from the MacGregor clan. Direct descendant of Rob Roy.

I know many MacGregors as I currently live in their clan territory.