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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9720576 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4950 on: April 28, 2010, 07:27:51 pm »

Supposedly in WW2 the polish cavalry charged the panzers because they were drunk and had been told they were made of cardboard.

Sounds like an urban legend, though. I suspect it is more likely that they had nothing else to throw at them, and hadn't fought tanks before (and thus being unaware of the consequences of charging armored machinegun platforms on horseback)
Ok, this mytho needs to be straigthened up. It's so ubiquitous that it's scary. Even my grandma(who was born before the war) beileves in one of it's versions.
Talk about successful propaganda.

Poland in '39 had a lot of cavalry divisions, owing partially to the cavalry traditions running since late middle ages, partially to the experiences with very effective Soviet 'Horse Army'  of S.Budionny in 1920. However, these were WWI-style units, with heavy equipment - anti-tank guns, artillery and machineguns. Horses were meant mostly for fast operational movement, not charges. Just like the infantry units were not meant for bayonet charges, even if occasionally fought with them.

There were battles, like the Battle of Mokra, when a Volynia Cavalry Brigade(which included an armoured battalion) fought against 4th Panzer Division, which could give rise to the mytho:
(quoting after wiki)
Quote
The 21st Armoured Battalion under Maj. Stanisław Gliński, equipped mostly with Polish TKS tankettes was ordered to counter-attack the village, along with the cavalry squadron of Captain Jerzy Hollak. In the clouds of smoke of the burning village, the Polish units accidentally drove right in the middle of a German tank column. Although the Polish tankettes were no match for some of the German tanks and the cavalry was very vulnerable to tank fire, the confusion in German ranks prevented the German commander from responding quickly enough. The Polish units managed to break through the German column with negligible losses and seized the forest to the Northwest of Mokra. This manoeuvre is sometimes referred to as a charge of Polish cavalry on German tanks, although no charge was planned nor executed. Nevertheless, the German tanks again lost orientation and the column withdrew from the village, again leaving it in Polish hands. The tanks withdrew to their initial positions in Wilkowiecko, leaving behind the infantry supporting the failed assault. German losses were high and a large number of German troops were taken prisoner.

Still, the main culprit is this engagement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty
Quote
The same day, German war correspondents were brought to the battlefield, together with two journalists from Italy. They were shown the corpses of Polish cavalrymen and their horses, as well as German tanks that had arrived at the place after the battle. One of the Italian correspondents, Indro Montanelli, sent home an article, in which he described the bravery and heroism of Polish soldiers, who charged German tanks with sabres and lances. Although such a charge did not happen and there were no tanks used during the combat, the myth was used by German propaganda during the war. German propaganda magazine Die Wehrmacht reported on 13 September that the Poles had gravely underestimated German weapons, as Polish propaganda had suggested that German armored vehicles were only covered with sheet metal, leading to a grotesque attack. After the end of World War II it was still used by Soviet propaganda as an example of stupidity of pre-war Polish commanders, who allegedly did not prepare their country for the war and instead wasted the blood of their soldiers.

It's those zany Italians again.

edit:
I'm sure the Poles encountered armored warfare in some form during their war with Ukraine.
history check roll... critical miss!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 07:51:20 pm by Il Palazzo »
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4951 on: April 28, 2010, 07:48:24 pm »

Quote
Although such a charge did not happen and there were no tanks used during the combat, the myth was used by German propaganda during the war.

So they weren't even trying to attack infantry, the tanks just showed up afterward?

Well, I was partially right, at least.
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Org

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4952 on: April 28, 2010, 07:51:19 pm »

Why is it that there are never WWI board games?
Or have I just missed them?
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Acanthus117

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4953 on: April 28, 2010, 07:53:40 pm »

Steam being mean + Matt being offline and sick + stuff = Sad kitty...



You'd never want Janet to be sad. Unless you want your upper torso found a month later at the bottom of a river...
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4954 on: April 28, 2010, 08:09:03 pm »

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Il Palazzo

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4956 on: April 28, 2010, 08:12:39 pm »

What, you want better graphics?
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Org

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4957 on: April 28, 2010, 08:15:00 pm »

What, you want better graphics?
No I mean recently. I see all these WWII stuff. But never WWI.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4958 on: April 28, 2010, 08:17:05 pm »

What do you mean by recently? A WWI game made recently? Why is when it was made a factor?
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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4959 on: April 28, 2010, 08:21:33 pm »

What do you mean by recently? A WWI game made recently? Why is when it was made a factor?
Usually better.
Kinda.
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Rilder

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4960 on: April 28, 2010, 08:22:27 pm »

Steam decided to delete my X3:TC data when I turned off "Show myself as offline (Was sleeping)
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Akigagak

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4961 on: April 28, 2010, 08:24:42 pm »

What do you mean by recently? A WWI game made recently? Why is when it was made a factor?
Usually better.
Kinda.
That didn't answer any of those questions.
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But then, life was also easier when I was running around here pretending to be a man, so I guess I should just "man up" and get back to work.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4962 on: April 28, 2010, 08:26:35 pm »

It's usually better if it's made with today's technology. I don't see it myself. Besides, the world has sorta moved on from WWI. It was not really a good time in anyone nation's history.
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Solifuge

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4963 on: April 28, 2010, 11:12:08 pm »

Ugh... I didn't do nearly as well as I'd hoped on my Math Placement Exam. Judging by my old ACT scores (23 in Math), they bumped me up to the highest level placement test available, but couldn't provide me with any study materials, nor could I use reference information, or a calculator in the testing center. I was basically scrambling to remember all the rules for algebra and pre-calculus that I haven't used in over 6 years. I wracked and wracked my brain for an hour and a half, trying to remember the rules for trigonometry, factorials, functions, and all that simple stuff. All things considered, I was pleasantly surprised with how much I was able to recall, given absolutely no study time or even mention of most of the things in more than half a decade.

There was a trig problem that made me grin... I was trying to recall how the angles and sides related when doing trig on a right triangle, when suddenly SOH-CAH-TOA popped into my head. I scribbled "Fuck yeah, Secant!" on my scratch paper too... since the proctor seemed like the sort who would get the reference. :P

Even so, I struggled through the placement test, and scored just below the range that would get me into lv.5 math (pre-calc, etc.) so it's back to College Algebra for me. That's after another round of placement tests, too. Bleh.

I now remember why I've always disliked math... or at least all the math that I've been subjected to. As a tool, it's great, and definitely gets results... but taken on its own, it's just a series of nebulous rules and tricks we use to compare or transform one value to another value. It doesn't approach an underlying rational truth at all, but instead builds and builds on an arbitrary pile of artificial logic that grows further and further abstracted from rational thought. For all the talk about how it approaches fundamental understanding of the universe, it seems to me that it's actually the furthest thing from an intelligible reality we have... and when people get too entangled in it, they tend to grow distant and separate from the world around them.
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Vector

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #4964 on: April 28, 2010, 11:51:52 pm »

I'm sure you knew I'd post after that one, so here goes =)

I now remember why I've always disliked math... or at least all the math that I've been subjected to. As a tool, it's great, and definitely gets results... but taken on its own, it's just a series of nebulous rules and tricks we use to compare or transform one value to another value. It doesn't approach an underlying rational truth at all, but instead builds and builds on an arbitrary pile of artificial logic that grows further and further abstracted from rational thought. For all the talk about how it approaches fundamental understanding of the universe, it seems to me that it's actually the furthest thing from an intelligible reality we have... and when people get too entangled in it, they tend to grow distant and separate from the world around them.

;_;

Though to be honest, I don't understand the "fundamental truths of the universe" people, either.  That's missing the point.  The "nebulous rules and tricks" is more correct, though the problem with the mathematics we teach in the lower levels of school is that we're seeing everything through a single nonadjustable prism.  The allure of higher mathematics is, in essence, that we can become masters of our own universes and take long flights of imagination to arbitrary realities.  It's like if a physicist could really experience a place with different laws, which he bent to his whim; as though a linguist could put a tribe in a certain situation and watch the language emerge; as though an architect could imagine a house and then, just as suddenly, begin to walk through it.

Mathematics is built from certain observations about the world around us, which we took as examples.  We then extended those examples to create new concepts, which had the fortune to correspond to physical reality as well.  We did not find the rational numbers, or the irrationals.  We built them--so of course it's somewhat arbitrary.  What you are looking at is a masterpiece painting, which has been in the making for 6,000 years or more.  In some places, mistakes have been retouched messily; in others, the hue of the paint may seem a little bit off.  That's all right--we have millenia in spades to continue our work.

The trouble is that you are staring at a single brushstroke, and saying "why?"  It's much like taking a single word in a novel--one with no particular significance or context, really--and saying "why this word?  Why here?"  You know the page number, and perhaps the title of the chapter: "addition," or "non-desarguesian planes," but you cannot hope to analyze the work without any sort of context.  It's futile.  The imagination of the painters is closed to you.

I suppose it's because of this sort of thing that people don't understand students of mathematics, and our tendency to withdraw from "the real world."  Much as the author must take a situation or story well-understood and transform it into a new reality, distant from our own but still familiar in some way, the mathematician performs a similar service.  The only trouble is that many people have a good deal of difficulty understanding the roots of the original tale, so that our detachment from reality seems far more pronounced.  It's a bit like cubism, I guess.


Eh.  If you don't like the direction that particular painting is going, pick a different one =)  There's many beautiful pieces of art in the world.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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