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[iceball3]

I understand insults. Tired doesn't mean stupid.

You need to learn the difference between insults and reprimands.

The reprimand being: if it isn't constructive, don't post.

He IS on topic, mind you Vector. >_>

[Ochita]

Reprimands??? For christ-sake. No more of this bullshit, please.

Well sorry honey, but you started the shit, you should learn how to deal with it when its being done at you.

[Vector]

Reprimands??? For christ-sake. No more of this bullshit, please.

What bullshit?

Fine, I'll stop using words like "reprimands."  You're running around arguments expecting them to entertain you, posting in a multitude of threads that you're sorry they weren't bigger and flamier, and it's both fucking annoying and absurd.  I don't like it.  I suggested you stop in a gently sarcastic way; you said I was insulting you and calling you stupid.

Well, I'm not calling you stupid.  I'm treating you the way I treat everyone else: like you know better than this, which I'm sure you do.

[Gunner-Chan]

Honestly. I've been trying to stay out of all this shit but I might as well say something.

First off. I don't LIKE how I seem to have become a forum meme to some people. I hate it. I don't consider myself more important than anyone here, or attempt to throw around any supposed clout since I don't consider myself to have any. The fact that people think I DO really shocks me.

My lockings of the thread, are as vector said were usually to stop all the non-discussion since toady kept saying the topic NEEDS to have a point if it's going to stay. And I didn't want the people that liked the thread to possibly lose it despite me not even liking it anymore. Ill admit I created it in a bit of depression since I wanted to see what made other people happy at the moment, it served out it's purpose for me and then ballooned somehow into something a subset of the forum sees as some kind of monstrosity.

Again, I only bothered maintaining it since people liked it. I rarely post these days unless I'm just that bored considering I haven't seen myself as part of this community for some time. I don't like much of the people that are regulars now nor do I want to discuss anything with them.

What I'm saying is I don't see how I keep getting dragged into these things. I did lock the thread earlier, but as I said It was just to see if the now rampant regulars would freak out over it. They did and I don't think the thread is worth the trouble anymore just because the people that seem to need it the most are so hysterical they can't be without it for like five minutes. It's embarrassing.

I don't know. I used to keep saying I should go but this place isn't worth hanging around for me anymore when I consider pretty much everyone on both sides of the recent argument obnoxious. But I think at most Ill just lurk again. I've done it for a long time before and I can just do that again so I can at least see anything cool anyone finds up in other games or these threads if they somehow survive.

Long story short I don't have that pull that maintaining that damn thread used to give that kept pulling me back and I'm just taking a break now or something.

[Captain Mayday]

<snip>

As an initial note, because it needs saying, the "Retro-Nagash-Makrond-Mayhem-Brotipodes group" does not agree with itself on every point. Our opinions do match to a significant extent, this is not surprising, since we socialise in IRC to a significant degree, but we're not posting in any sort of coordinated effort. A conversation occurred, and anybody with something to add has added it.
I don't want to come of being snarky here, because I'm not trying to be, but Toady has a misconception that whenever we're posting in a thread at the same time, we're 'dogpiling' it as IRCers, rather than forumites who speak in the same thread because their attention has been brought it at the same time through IRC.


Now, to address your points regarding OP moderation.
While I can agree that it is not always used badly, it can be used in this way. There is a reason that most forums have a strong moderator base, instead of giving out moderator powers to their communities.
This also falls in line as agreeing with you on the point that Toady doesn't have the time to moderate to this extent. So in short, yes, this community may at times be able to self-moderate, but I think it would be better if actual moderators were doing it.

[GamerKnight]

Reprimands??? For christ-sake. No more of this bullshit, please.

What bullshit?

Fine, I'll stop using words like "reprimands."  You're running around arguments expecting them to entertain you, posting in a multitude of threads that you're sorry they weren't bigger and flamier, and it's both fucking annoying and absurd.  I don't like it.  I suggested you stop in a gently sarcastic way; you said I was insulting you and calling you stupid.

Well, I'm not calling you stupid.  I'm treating you the way I treat everyone else: like you know better than this, which I'm sure you do.

I'm only ever on these forums for amusement. Other's arguments are a source of amusement. Now goodnight, I'll be back in about 8 hrs.

[Darvi]

Then go read YouTube comments or something.

[Lysabild]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is there an option to delete or suspend your forum account?
Does Today accept such requests?

Or would I need to be a total dick in public for that to happen?

Oh, come on... *sigh*

Well, if you leave, I'll certainly miss you.  But there's always letters.  I'm sorry if you feel ignored.  It isn't right.


This conversation is kind of ridiculous and, at this point, makes me think that one side is completely ignoring the other.

In other news, even though I benefit from the "lulz it has tits" behavior, I'm not exactly fond of it (and occasionally feel that I am being pitted against other people, which I certainly don't like).  So, I partially agree with the Retro-Nagash-Makrond-Mayhem-Brotipodes group--not on every point, but perhaps on the general principle.

Of course, throwing down my gauntlet in one direction or another doesn't really mean much, but I don't have time to enter a really involved argument at the moment.


@Retro: sorry to see you go.  You were sane.

I feel that thread locking is only productive in cases where there's a flame-war going on, rather than discussion that the OP disagrees with.
I am extremely wary of having given forumites the ability to lock and move their own threads, and I don't believe this should have been done. To me this seems like something best kept to Moderators, and it seems like it's often overused.

On the other hand, Janet has previously performed thread-locks largely (by which I mean probably more than 50% of the time, in fairly recent history) to cut back on the spammy posts and conversations everyone has been indulging in.  Or, at the very least, that is what she says, and it correlates well with the events.  She issues a warning, and then she proceeds to lock.

This doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me.  If that thread weren't self-moderated, it would have to be deleted by Toady because it simply wasn't worth the time.  That may say something about the nature of the Happy Thread, indeed, but I still feel that there is a certain amount of value in it.  I've been able to learn a lot and see a lot of beautiful things to that thread, and I've met a great number of people from many countries who could point me to the limits of my own ignorance.  I'm grateful to the people here who made that possible.

I like to think of us as one big happy forum family because, to be honest, I am rather lonely.  But that largely means, to me, that we can share things that we find amusing and debate relatively calmly on various issues, and that we can feel free to act without too many restrictions.  It doesn't mean that we don't have our own foibles and difficulties, and it doesn't mean that people shouldn't have to defend themselves.  Not because people should be alone, but because so often we end up taking sides and creating a war over one solitary individual, where we could have just had a quiet disagreement between two, with the defendants absorbing the rest of the emotional damage afterwards.  There are some attacks that must be defended against, hopefully with help from others--i.e. trolling, personally damaging anti-progressivist rhetoric (... by which I mean racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc., etc.), and so on, and so forth.  But not every quiet disagreement is this sort of attack.

But instead we have a lot of white-knighting, and frankly, I'm tired of it.  I don't think it generally falls in my favor, though I may be simply blind.  I feel that I end up disagreeing with my friends here rather a lot, and then at the end we explain ourselves and wind up friends again, with no one running in to defend either side with flame and arrows.  I've even been told to stop being a jackass or a whiner, though not quite in those words, and that was good for me, and I appreciated it.

I don't know where I'm going with this.  But all-in-all, I feel like there is a "cult of personality" where we are friends and take care of each other, carefully respecting and creating boundaries, and there are cults of personality where we listen to someone we would never listen to otherwise, simply because they are them.  Their rhetorical power is not earned.  And, in these scenarios, I think there can be some difficulty.

Does it matter?

Yes.  Of course it does.

This is very close to my opinion of it all so far, but put better and more gentle(Subtle? Not getting the right word here) than I would've been able to. Thanks for that.

[Mindmaker]

No it, does not!
What's the point of being part of a community, where you're only allowed to live in someone eles shadow? Where you have to be nearly insulting when you want to make a point on your own, that goes against the popular opinion?
I'm sick and tired of this sugar-coated and collectively nurtured ignorance.

Nothing changes when I go.

And as you said we still have letters.

[Lysabild]

No it, does not!
What's the point of being part of a community, where you're only allowed to live in someone eles shadow? Where you have to be nearly insulting when you want to make a point on your own, that goes against the popular opinion?
I'm sick and tired of this sugar-coated and collectively nurtured ignorance.

Nothing changes when I go.

And as you said we still have letters.

That fact that the forum will be one sane man shorther is a thing that will be more felt than you might realize at the moment you're writing this.

[Darvi]

You don't have to be insulting. Anybody who thinks they have to has in my eyes lost any right for any discussion at all.

Which is a small part why I haven't participated.

[Vector]

@Janet: That clarifies a lot of things.  Thank you, and also thank you for keeping your thread open for other people's benefit despite not enjoying it.  I'm always grateful for the empathy you show other people.

Er... I just wanted to say that because I feel like we've sort of scraped each other sometimes in the past, and so I figured I should say it now instead of continuing to sit on it.

Our opinions do match to a significant extent, this is not surprising, since we socialise in IRC to a significant degree, but we're not posting in any sort of coordinated effort.

Bah, sorry.  That was on the not-so-clear side, and I'd completely forgotten about the dogpiling charge.  My language was insensitive.  What I meant was that the main point you all seem to share--that there's an issue here--is one that I share, rather than the "everything is fine here forever" point of view, or "meh, it ain't broke" point of view that might be seen as an antithesis.

This is very close to my opinion of it all so far, but put better and more gentle(Subtle? Not getting the right word here) than I would've been able to. Thanks for that.

Well, thank you.  I'm glad if I could be helpful.

No it, does not!
What's the point of being part of a community, where you're only allowed to live in someone eles shadow? Where you have to be nearly insulting when you want to make a point on your own, that goes against the popular opinion?
I'm sick and tired of this sugar-coated and collectively nurtured ignorance.

Nothing changes when I go.

And as you said we still have letters.

I meant it mattered in a "if you leave, I will be sad," way, doodabuddy--not on any sort of absolute scale, and not on any everyone-will-be-rolling-out-the-unhappy-wagons scale.  So... to me, it does matter.  That's all I meant.  And I'm sorry that you feel this way... not to say that you shouldn't, or that it's unreasonable, simply that I always get kind of sad when you're in a funk.

[Captain Mayday]

You don't have to be insulting. Anybody who thinks they have to has in my eyes lost any right for any discussion at all.

Which is a small part why I haven't participated.

I believe what he meant was basically, to even have an argument acknowledged requires you to be shocking, in order to shake people from their comfortable reveries and give you attention.

It's a common tactic.

[ChairmanPoo]

"Fly on, Fight on, 'Till the last drop of blood and gasoline"

[Darvi]

Well I don't acknowledge 'em and everybody should feel bad for doing so.