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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9479976 times)

Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28095 on: April 18, 2011, 09:34:13 am »

No it's not sarcasm.

^that sentence, however, might be.
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Blargityblarg

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28096 on: April 18, 2011, 09:35:05 am »

I'm sorry, but I'm not white-knighting for Janet, or for anyone but myself; I don't think she should have closed the happy thread this latest time or indeed, many of the other times, but I'm not hounding her about it because she apologised, said she wouldn't do it again. Dasleah, on the other hand, was complaining about the same thing as Janet- a discussion not going as he'd like- but he kept arguing.

To be fair, it is not a bad thing to continue to argue if a discussion is not going as you want, because it's still possible to raise valid points.
I feel that thread locking is only productive in cases where there's a flame-war going on, rather than discussion that the OP disagrees with.
I am extremely wary of having given forumites the ability to lock and move their own threads, and I don't believe this should have been done. To me this seems like something best kept to Moderators, and it seems like it's often overused.

sidenote: goddamn like 40 posts. 4 clicks on the Post button

We appear to have much the same opinions, though I am neutral about thread owners having that power. I agree that arguments should exhaust all valid points, it's just that I don't think Dasleah had any valid points to defend his actions.
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28097 on: April 18, 2011, 09:40:49 am »

I'm sorry, but I'm not white-knighting for Janet, or for anyone but myself; I don't think she should have closed the happy thread this latest time or indeed, many of the other times, but I'm not hounding her about it because she apologised, said she wouldn't do it again. Dasleah, on the other hand, was complaining about the same thing as Janet- a discussion not going as he'd like- but he kept arguing.

To be fair, it is not a bad thing to continue to argue if a discussion is not going as you want, because it's still possible to raise valid points.
I feel that thread locking is only productive in cases where there's a flame-war going on, rather than discussion that the OP disagrees with.
I am extremely wary of having given forumites the ability to lock and move their own threads, and I don't believe this should have been done. To me this seems like something best kept to Moderators, and it seems like it's often overused.

sidenote: goddamn like 40 posts. 4 clicks on the Post button

We appear to have much the same opinions, though I am neutral about thread owners having that power. I agree that arguments should exhaust all valid points, it's just that I don't think Dasleah had any valid points to defend his actions.

Dasleah originally got banned for something I and others consider to be an extremely iffy reason. Later he was banned again because he was ban evading. In all cases the posts were deleted, erasing them from forum record.
This happens semi-regularly with posts questioning the state of the forums, and it is obviously highly stressful to those making the arguments to have them deleted.
I don't believe that they're being deleted because this is some kind of police state, but rather because they inspire a considerable amount of feuding. Nevertheless, having such an argument deleted makes you feel like you're being silenced, especially when it's done without a reason given.

I can't agree with Dasleah when he's trolling, but I do understand his frustrations and his feeling that he has no other avenue open to air his grievances.
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Blargityblarg

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28098 on: April 18, 2011, 09:42:50 am »

I agree about post deletions as well, but for different reasons, namely that I'd like to be able to go back and point out where whoever earned a ban, and so that shitstorms aren't repeated biannually.
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Angel Of Death

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28099 on: April 18, 2011, 09:44:15 am »

I agree about post deletions as well, but for different reasons, namely that I'd like to be able to go back and point out where whoever earned a ban, and so that shitstorms aren't repeated biannually.
Ditto
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28100 on: April 18, 2011, 09:45:50 am »

I agree about post deletions as well, but for different reasons, namely that I'd like to be able to go back and point out where whoever earned a ban, and so that shitstorms aren't repeated biannually.

Yeah, this is a point oft-raised. The Moderation Log attempts to amend this but I'm honestly not confident in it being able to do so.
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GamerKnight

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28101 on: April 18, 2011, 09:46:20 am »

I agree about post deletions as well, but for different reasons, namely that I'd like to be able to go back and point out where whoever earned a ban, and so that shitstorms aren't repeated biannually.
Ditto

Ditto ditto.
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Mindmaker

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28102 on: April 18, 2011, 09:48:14 am »

Is there an option to delete or suspend your forum account?
Does Today accept such requests?

Or would I need to be a total dick in public for that to happen?
Toady is a well meaning guy, I guess if you asked him he would be willing.
Do you plan on suspending your account?
Does it matter?
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Vector

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28103 on: April 18, 2011, 09:50:11 am »

Is there an option to delete or suspend your forum account?
Does Today accept such requests?

Or would I need to be a total dick in public for that to happen?

Oh, come on... *sigh*

Well, if you leave, I'll certainly miss you.  But there's always letters.  I'm sorry if you feel ignored.  It isn't right.


This conversation is kind of ridiculous and, at this point, makes me think that one side is completely ignoring the other.

In other news, even though I benefit from the "lulz it has tits" behavior, I'm not exactly fond of it (and occasionally feel that I am being pitted against other people, which I certainly don't like).  So, I partially agree with the Retro-Nagash-Makrond-Mayhem-Brotipodes group--not on every point, but perhaps on the general principle.

Of course, throwing down my gauntlet in one direction or another doesn't really mean much, but I don't have time to enter a really involved argument at the moment.


@Retro: sorry to see you go.  You were sane.


I feel that thread locking is only productive in cases where there's a flame-war going on, rather than discussion that the OP disagrees with.
I am extremely wary of having given forumites the ability to lock and move their own threads, and I don't believe this should have been done. To me this seems like something best kept to Moderators, and it seems like it's often overused.

On the other hand, Janet has previously performed thread-locks largely (by which I mean probably more than 50% of the time, in fairly recent history) to cut back on the spammy posts and conversations everyone has been indulging in.  Or, at the very least, that is what she says, and it correlates well with the events.  She issues a warning, and then she proceeds to lock.

This doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me.  If that thread weren't self-moderated, it would have to be deleted by Toady because it simply wasn't worth the time.  That may say something about the nature of the Happy Thread, indeed, but I still feel that there is a certain amount of value in it.  I've been able to learn a lot and see a lot of beautiful things to that thread, and I've met a great number of people from many countries who could point me to the limits of my own ignorance.  I'm grateful to the people here who made that possible.

I like to think of us as one big happy forum family because, to be honest, I am rather lonely.  But that largely means, to me, that we can share things that we find amusing and debate relatively calmly on various issues, and that we can feel free to act without too many restrictions.  It doesn't mean that we don't have our own foibles and difficulties, and it doesn't mean that people shouldn't have to defend themselves.  Not because people should be alone, but because so often we end up taking sides and creating a war over one solitary individual, where we could have just had a quiet disagreement between two, with the defendants absorbing the rest of the emotional damage afterwards.  There are some attacks that must be defended against, hopefully with help from others--i.e. trolling, personally damaging anti-progressivist rhetoric (... by which I mean racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc., etc.), and so on, and so forth.  But not every quiet disagreement is this sort of attack.

But instead we have a lot of white-knighting, and frankly, I'm tired of it.  I don't think it generally falls in my favor, though I may be simply blind.  I feel that I end up disagreeing with my friends here rather a lot, and then at the end we explain ourselves and wind up friends again, with no one running in to defend either side with flame and arrows.  I've even been told to stop being a jackass or a whiner, though not quite in those words, and that was good for me, and I appreciated it.

I don't know where I'm going with this.  But all-in-all, I feel like there is a "cult of personality" where we are friends and take care of each other, carefully respecting and creating boundaries, and there are cults of personality where we listen to someone we would never listen to otherwise, simply because they are them.  Their rhetorical power is not earned.  And, in these scenarios, I think there can be some difficulty.


Does it matter?

Yes.  Of course it does.
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GamerKnight

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28104 on: April 18, 2011, 09:51:05 am »

Uhhh. Long posts hurt tired brain.
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Vector

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28105 on: April 18, 2011, 09:52:40 am »

Uhhh. Long posts hurt tired brain.

Wow, what beautiful rhetoric!  I am inclined to join your side and forsake all others, dearest pet.

In other words: thanks, that's very constructive.
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Blargityblarg

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28106 on: April 18, 2011, 09:53:52 am »

Nobody's forcing you to read them, mate, or to be tired. Bed is thataway, and I'm heading there now too.

fakeedit: How can you both be a ninja and late to the argument :P?
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GamerKnight

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28107 on: April 18, 2011, 09:55:07 am »

Uhhh. Long posts hurt tired brain.

Wow, what beautiful rhetoric!  I am inclined to join your side and forsake all others, dearest pet.

In other words: thanks, that's very constructive.

I understand insults. Tired doesn't mean stupid.
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Vector

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28108 on: April 18, 2011, 09:55:57 am »

fakeedit: How can you both be a ninja and late to the argument :P?

I, unlike you, have just woken up and am pumped full of caffeine :D


I understand insults. Tired doesn't mean stupid.

You need to learn the difference between insults and reprimands.

The reprimand being: if it isn't constructive, don't post.
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pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

GamerKnight

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #28109 on: April 18, 2011, 09:57:22 am »

Reprimands??? For christ-sake. No more of this bullshit, please.
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