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[Deviled]

Bro, who ever you are I just gotta say one thing. Yes. You are correct in many of you arguments in your speach. I find the fort mew mew or what ever it's called annoying. But I just keep on living and don't care. There are more important things to worry about. So just remember. Always look on the bright side of life.

[Captain Mayday]

Whoa. Just one question. Why are you still here? Why haven't you left and gone to another forum?

He effectively has, because, as he mentioned, he was banned.
He nevertheless idles here because he still cares about this community.

Basically, if your neighborhood starts going downhill, you have the option of moving away like a coward, or staying and trying to improve it to it's former glory.

[Brotipodes]

Whoa. Just one question. Why are you still here? Why haven't you left and gone to another forum?

Because up and leaving isn't part of any sensible solution. I'm hopeful that the circlejerk can stop and we can create a community that I can be proud to be part of again. That kind of attitude is part of the problem - that any dissenting view is automatically a troll and any validity to it is lost. The overwhelming opinion amongst posters - even Toady himself, it seems - is that any argument is deconstructive and should be at best ignored, at worst censored. Believe it or not it is perfectly possible to have a heated argument that is not trolling! Just because you don't agree with the way I argue doesn't mean everything I say is invalid. I personally don't care if you don't like me, or don't agree with me. You can hate my guts and think I'm stupid and swear your head off at me for all I care. But sometimes things need to be said and bitched about. When all genuine avenues of discourse are exhausted, sometimes being a dick is the only thing that will shock people into caring about what you say, for better or worse.

Bro, who ever you are I just gotta say one thing. Yes. You are correct in many of you arguments in your speach. I find the fort mew mew or what ever it's called annoying. But I just keep on living and don't care. There are more important things to worry about. So just remember. Always look on the bright side of life.

There are certainly more important things in life and rest assured that I won't be losing any sleep over this, but this attitude is another problem. There's an overwhelming trend to respond to any negativity on these forums with one of those fake-fifties-housewives smiles and just nod and pretend we're all one big happy family. We're not! Half of us hate the other half! It's ok to have issues with people and complain about them. Dissent is not a dirty word, and nor should any possible hint of it be automatic grounds for ignorance and hostility.

[Ochita]

....
I have no comment on this really.

[GamerKnight]

I get what you're saying man, but this forum is open-minded compared to some. Trust me on that.

[Angel Of Death]

I get what you're saying man, but this forum is open-minded compared to some. Trust me on that.

Yeah but anybody can be open minded compared to someone else or something else. Not that I'm saying the people of Bay12 aren't open minded.

[Makrond]

You guys realise that there is a general perception that the DF community is worse than the Minecraft community right?


Just thought I'd throw some perspective in here.

[Deviled]

People hating each other is inevitable. Gears will clash wherever you are. Yes we have problems, and yes we need to fix them, but it's not going to come by yelling. But like you said, it is possible to have a heated argument without trolling.

Also don't bring up the minecraft forum.

[Solifuge]

Folks, let's stop the cycle of nastiness, please. Snarky comments and GTFOs don't help anyone.

Again, I see where you're coming from... though perhaps I don't see the problems you cite as a debasement. As a point of interest, perhaps, Janet addressed the matter of the locks/use of personal clout in petty ways, and even apologized:

Actually. This lock I can admit was bad. But I did it because simply... I guess I needed to see for myself how bad the reactions to this one simple thread being locked can get. Simply put I don't think it's worth locking on my part ever now simply because people react so badly to it. It's... Weird.

But yes I apologize for that one.

As far as whether the "Things that made you _____." today threads are technically conversations or not, that's all rather beside the point to me. People discuss things, and share findings, experiences, events, and so on in them. At least for me, they've had more than enough interesting things to share about world affairs, modern culture, and entertainment, to make up for any circlejerks or silliness that happens therein. I can glean enough goodness out of it, that I don't have a problem with them.

I think you're making a Crusade out of... well, I'm not sure what, really. People are people, my friend... and it's a hard lesson to learn that it's not ones place to change another. I like the people here plenty, and I wish everyone well. Sure there's dysfunction... that happens. When people make a drama of things, make a spectacle of themselves, or do something in a desperate plea for attention, I can see it plainly, and though it frustrates me, I don't play into it. Neither do I browbeat them with it. I think this is a fundamental thing which you may want to do some thinking about. (Note: I'm not putting it eloquently right now; fucking haven't slept more than 6 hours in 4 days, so... yeah.)

Anyway, when I'm more lucid, it seems a worthwhile discussion to have, and might be worth starting a thread of its own. I'd prefer to keep it impersonal if public, because there is tricky line between well-intentioned unsolicited advice, and personal attacks... moreover unsolicited advice is generally a slippery slope.

[Max White]

You guys realise that people consider the DF community to be worse than the Minecraft community right?


Just thought I'd throw some perspective in here.

What? Ok, that idea alone made me sad today. We would never DDoS Toady just because he didn't give us an update this week! I dread the thought!

No, I think this view is stemmed from the fact that we enjoy a game with ascii graphics. We must be insane to enjoy something so ugly, right? So that entitles others to mock us, surly...

[GamerKnight]

You guys realise that people consider the DF community to be worse than the Minecraft community right?


Just thought I'd throw some perspective in here.

What? Ok, that idea alone made me sad today. We would never DDoS Toady just because he didn't give us an update this week! I dread the thought!

No, I think this view is stemmed from the fact that we enjoy a game with ascii graphics. We must be insane to enjoy something so ugly, right? So that entitles others to mock us, surly...

We have a bad rap because we a monsters. Remember what we do to our little dwarves?

[Angel Of Death]

You guys realise that people consider the DF community to be worse than the Minecraft community right?


Just thought I'd throw some perspective in here.

What? Ok, that idea alone made me sad today. We would never DDoS Toady just because he didn't give us an update this week! I dread the thought!

No, I think this view is stemmed from the fact that we enjoy a game with ascii graphics. We must be insane to enjoy something so ugly, right? So that entitles others to mock us, surly...

We have a bad rap because we a monsters. Remember what we do to our little dwarves?

Torture them emotionally and physically until they go insane?

[Brotipodes]

You'll have to understand that motions of 'we are not all that terrible' coming from the very people who are so ingrained in the culture of this forum that makes it so terrible are hardly to be taken as a reasonable insight into this. You can't accurately comment and judge these things because I guarantee you even now you're honestly not grasping what I'm saying beyond 'he doesn't like Janet or MeoM'. I don't know if there's honestly a way to fix that. And from experience I know Toady will simply ban and delete these posts anyway, which is half of the frustration in genuinely and constructively trying to make a difference here. I've made these points far more politely and eloquently a dozen times before, but in the interests of maintaining a happy outer facing, they're all gone now.

[Makrond]

You guys realise that people consider the DF community to be worse than the Minecraft community right?


Just thought I'd throw some perspective in here.

What? Ok, that idea alone made me sad today. We would never DDoS Toady just because he didn't give us an update this week! I dread the thought!

No, I think this view is stemmed from the fact that we enjoy a game with ascii graphics. We must be insane to enjoy something so ugly, right? So that entitles others to mock us, surly...

You're adorable. The DF community is looked down on because of, well, the rather cliquey nature of it which people continue to (attempt to) complain about, only to be ignored, be called a troll, or have someone flatly deny it... before immediately returning to the very behaviour which is being complained about. There's an air of people who have so little self-awareness they can't seem to read the things they say and find the disingenuity.

[Mindmaker]

People hating each other is inevitable. Gears will clash wherever you are. Yes we have problems, and yes we need to fix them, but it's not going to come by yelling. But like you said, it is possible to have a heated argument without trolling.

Then how? These forums have been in this stagnant state for so long.
I have complained about those problems a long time ago, but nobody cared.
So, I've gone along with it, but after today I can no longer close my eyes to this ignorance.