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[Dunamisdeos]

You can also PM people if you don't want to put it in the public sphere so to speak.

Ya we gotcha. You won't get nuthin' but support from any of us. Be confident of that.

[Naturegirl1999]

Yes, we will support you

[Reelya]

Nobody's talking about it, but the shit's really hitting the fan in Indonesia

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49768137

Under the draft laws, there would be a ban on sex outside of marriage - which could result in a one-year prison term. Criminal charges would only go ahead after a complaint by a spouse, child or parent.

Living together outside marriage could also lead to a six-month prison sentence.

Insulting the president, vice president, religion, state institutions and symbols such as the flag and national anthem would also become criminal offences.

And there would also be a maximum four-year prison term for women who have an abortion - if there were no circumstances of a medical emergency or rape.

If the code were to be passed, the law would take about two years to take affect so the public and police could become familiar with the changes.

But there's been criticism over the government's plan.

https://www.nst.com.my/world/2019/09/524516/indonesia-student-protests-against-bill-ban-extra-marital-sex-enter-third-day

JAKARTA: Indonesian students rallied for a third day on Wednesday against proposed new laws, including a criminal code that would ban extramarital sex and insulting the president’s honour, a day after clashes in the capital injured more than 300 people.

Police fired tear gas and water cannon to break up Tuesday’s rallies in Jakarta and another city, some of the biggest since 1998 student protests fuelled unrest that led to the fall of former strongman leader Suharto.
...
The revisions to the code include penalties for sex outside marriage, insulting the president’s dignity, a four-year jail term for abortions in the absence of a medical emergency or rape, and a prison term for black magic.

Noooooo ... not black magic.

The really sad thing is that the politicians who've been reported as having objected to the bill have only really said, "yes there are a couple of details here and there that I disagreed with but hopefully they'll be sorted by next week and we can get this thing passed".

EDIT: it gets worse

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/indonesia-set-to-outlaw-sex-before-marriage-affecting-tourists/11532328

Indonesian President Joko Widodo has suspended a raft of draconian amendments to the country's criminal code — that would ban sex outside marriage and limit other personal freedoms.

The Indonesian Government had been planning to bring forward a vote on a new national criminal code as early as next week. Among other things, it would make it illegal to criticise the president, have sex outside of marriage, sell contraceptives and take away a women's rights to choose an abortion.

But late on Friday, Mr Widodo delayed the bill's passage until the new parliament is inaugurated next month, meaning debate and a vote will begin again.

Oh right, so among other things they're banning birth control and condoms by the sounds of things. That should certainly help poverty in a nation of 220 million people!

Also note, that the vote was fast-tracked to occur before the new parliament even sits. This sounds like religious hardliners trying push through their wish-list of draconian laws before democracy gets in the way and they lose their majority.

Also:

There is also anger over the passing of a new law that has weakened the Corruption Eradication Commission, an important arm in rooting out corruption.

Sooo, the same politicians passing these laws against normal people also passed laws reducing the power of corruption investigations against politicians.

[Doomblade187]

The Indonesian police were using expired tear gas in the riots - it becomes cyanide when expired, though I don't think any deaths yet. Protesters have tried to shank the cops, too, and there are conspiracy theories about who is organizing the protesters.

Things are messy.

[Eschar]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I find it hard, and don't know how to, to resist incel-like philosophy, because it is a mechanism for blaming everything I can on everyone else and I am not good at admitting faults. Intellectually, I know why it is wrong, yet it still holds some attractiveness, probably because it resembles patterns of thought/behavior I have held in the past (had I read incel stuff a few years ago, there is no doubt I would become one). This is terrifying.

Me being still in high school is both a good and bad thing. On the one hand, I haven't wasted a long time stewing in these thoughts. On the other, if I succumb, I will have a long ...and bad... life.

Some pointers on how to resist?

[JoshuaFH]

i just dont want to say it

There are so many people here with such a wide range of personal issues that you can say it if you think it'll help. Ain't gonna get no judgment here.

If you want to and are worried about being judged, that is. If it's too deeply personal feel free to keep it to yourself and we will still support you.

You can also PM people if you don't want to put it in the public sphere so to speak.

Yes, we will support you

You know thanks guys. It took a couple days, I went to an FNM to play some MTG with some old friends that I hadn't seen in forever. I'm not part of anyone's 'in-group' but just getting to see some real, friendly human beings to socialize with allayed a lot of my butthurtness about life. I wish I could have contact with people like that more often, but I'm feeling better now. Fingers crossed.

Also I got a new keyboard now, yay.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I find it hard, and don't know how to, to resist incel-like philosophy, because it is a mechanism for blaming everything I can on everyone else and I am not good at admitting faults. Intellectually, I know why it is wrong, yet it still holds some attractiveness, probably because it resembles patterns of thought/behavior I have held in the past (had I read incel stuff a few years ago, there is no doubt I would become one). This is terrifying.

Some pointers please?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Don't worry, I'm a virgin as well, though I would never call myself an incel. The underlying attitude is purely negative and can't be endorsed; in that in thrusts all the blame and responsibility onto other people, while tacitly believing that nothing can be done to alter it or change anything. It's a mindset that wants to root itself into failure & unhappiness and stay there.

Now, to give incels some credit, I do think that people are a product of their environments; but people who leave it at that and refuse to acknowledge that is how everyone is to some extent, and refuse to look at themselves to make the necessary changes, frankly deserve no sympathy whatsoever. Incels love their own attitude because the victim complex is very inviting and comforting; and like any siren's call, it will kill them.

Please don't think me a hypocrite.

[Dunamisdeos]

Best way is what you're doing right now.

Find someone or somewhere that supports you. The incel philosophy (derisive snort) preys upon people by making them exclude themselves from all other social groups. Anytime you feel it's pull feel free to come here and we will remind you that you have worth regardless of arbitrary BS like virginity.

[MrRoboto75]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I find it hard, and don't know how to, to resist incel-like philosophy, because it is a mechanism for blaming everything I can on everyone else and I am not good at admitting faults. Intellectually, I know why it is wrong, yet it still holds some attractiveness, probably because it resembles patterns of thought/behavior I have held in the past (had I read incel stuff a few years ago, there is no doubt I would become one). This is terrifying.

Some pointers please?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Don't worry, I'm a virgin as well, though I would never call myself an incel. The underlying attitude is purely negative and can't be endorsed; in that in thrusts all the blame and responsibility onto other people, while tacitly believing that nothing can be done to alter it or change anything. It's a mindset that wants to root itself into failure & unhappiness and stay there.

Now, to give incels some credit, I do think that people are a product of their environments; but people who leave it at that and refuse to acknowledge that is how everyone is to some extent, and refuse to look at themselves to make the necessary changes, frankly deserve no sympathy whatsoever. Incels love their own attitude because the victim complex is very inviting and comforting; and like any siren's call, it will kill them.

Please don't think me a hypocrite.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Honestly, to me it feels like dating these days is objectively shit.  Something like half of everyone reports being lonely and either a quarter or a third of all people haven't had sex in recent times.

My main grevance is it feels like every place to meet people, at least in my area, is gone.  There's no bars to drink at, gyms and bookstores are just antisocial, meetup.com tends to be a wasteland (either only people I'm not, or its during work hours), and my job really leaves nothing either.  No one to meet and talk to, no one to date.

Online feels like some sort of scam, as in actual success means less profit for them.  But honestly online dating existing has changed dating culture, seemingly for the far worse.  Its very hard to use those apps and not feel like jaded shit.  The odds are far too poor and the competition far too great.

I feel like most of my issues relationship-wise were planted ages ago and are now massive trees of, well, issues.  I try to improve things, but its incredibly long-term and neither I nor anyone around me ever even notices a difference.  Its massively disheartening, things just never really seem to change.

[dragdeler]

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[Reelya]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One thing I did read was that many of the incel types have had experiences at highschool being bullied by girls. Also if you look into it, girls tend to bully in groups, while boys tend to bully one-on-one.

https://middleearthnj.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/gender-differences-in-bullying/

Girls bully in groups or packs by using emotional violence. Girl bullies often use their popularity to encourage other teens not to be friends with the victim. A popular girl bully will expect and require that the other girls in her group back her up

So, if you have this kind of experience where one or more 'alpha' girls is bullying you as an unpopular male in class, and it definitely happens, then you can imagine the kind of emotional scars this could lead to. It can lead to ostracism within the classroom, and males are subsceptible to the negative effects the same as girls are, and they often lack the same sort of sympathetic support networks that girls can tap into.

There is also the fact that if a guy talks about being bullied by girls he's probably going to be mocked for talking about it in most places: even in feminist circles where they tout how they 'laugh at male tears'. So, you have these people with embittering experiences, they have no place they're really allowed to express how they feel, then they discover the 'incelverse' where people are sympathetic to their experiences.

This is the real broader issue. We talk the talk about allowing boys to be vulnerable and talking about feelings, but when it actually happens and they start blabbing about how they feel we feel revulsion and herd them into a corner, then wonder why it becomes toxic.

[dragdeler]

-.

[MrRoboto75]

By the time all that gets done, I'll be too old to date anyway.

[dragdeler]

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[MrRoboto75]

idk it looks like you're managing to hold a job 2-3 years younger than I did... in short it's learn to not give a fuck and when

I'd need three more jobs just like it to live on my own.

[TamerVirus]

It's time to bring back arranged marriages! _{to secure alliances between rival fiefdoms.}