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Author Topic: 2012  (Read 9807 times)

Kagus

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Re: 2012
« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2009, 12:50:03 am »

Pardon me, but this
'Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on.'

is awesome.  Why have I never heard it before?

Neruz

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Re: 2012
« Reply #91 on: October 20, 2009, 03:41:37 am »

Pardon me, but this
'Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on.'

is awesome.  Why have I never heard it before?

Because you're not Australian?

Starver

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Re: 2012
« Reply #92 on: October 20, 2009, 07:11:45 am »

In the interests of actually providing some form of information (rather than merely saying "this is what the Doomsayers say")...

It's moving at the moment, so yes.
Apparently 40+km a year, at the moment.  At least that's the case for the spot on the Earth's surface where the North Magnetic Pole 'is' (where the 'south' pole's field lines of the internal magneto-dynamic... thingy... come straight up out of the ground, rather than at an angle, which may or may not relate to where the vertical field lines are at any other depth or altitude...).  And it has been moving faster, but then it is a chaotic system, so I wouldn't read anything into that.

The Southern Magnetic Pole (the 'north' pole of the Earth's magnet) is apparently drifting only about 10km, at the moment, depending on where you check.  And whereas the Northern entity is 80-odd degrees North, the Southern one is only about 60-odd degrees South (and both significantly around the 'back' of the planet (the IDL-side of the "90-degrees East and West" slice), also.


(Actually, after writing the above, I found that I may have been interchangably using references to the "Magnetic" and "Geomagnetic" poles, the latter being the intersection with the Earth's surface.  You'll excuse me if I don't trawl through everything again to make sure that what I was talking about (the Geomagnetic one) didn't include the odd reference to the other by mistake.  Especially given it's a mistake/shortcut a lot of people would make anyway.)


Doesnt' the earth's magnetic field switching take, like a couple hundred thousand years?
Sort of. Sometimes it 'flips' very rapidly by geological standards, which could be anything from nigh instantainious to a century or two.
There are also "excursions" of the magnetic field (temporary collapses, maybe 1/5th the strength), as well, these seem to last on the order of 10^3 or 10^4 years, but how long they take to actually 'spin down' to start with and resolve themselves at the end is unknown (or even if excursions are actually 'not quite' reversals, or reversals 'flipped back the wrong way' recoveries from an excursion).  And at this point I think I should point out that there's never been an Extinction Level Event unambiguously associated with these long-term episodes.  You could argue because it's a long enough period for any ELE to 'get lost' in it and blamed upon the usual suspects, but there's valued opinion that the solar wind itself keeps the magnetosphere 'spinning' even when the Earth doesn't support it.

Gods know that there's plenty of other stuff (volcanism, asteroids, life itself causing problems like flooding the planet with that poisonous gas, oxygen) that can claim to cause ELEs.  I think the main interest that Man would have in a flip is in how it affects power-distribution technology (which is already threatened by solar events) and 'lodestone'-era navigation.
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Neruz

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Re: 2012
« Reply #93 on: October 20, 2009, 07:20:01 am »

It would be a notable event and most probably would require some adjustment, possibly cause a bit of chaos, but it wouldn't be a mass extinction event.

Jude

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Re: 2012
« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2009, 11:07:50 am »

It would be a notable event and most probably would require some adjustment, possibly cause a bit of chaos, but it wouldn't be a mass extinction event.

it would fuck up our navigation pretty good while it was happening though, right?
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Starver

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Re: 2012
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2009, 11:16:42 am »

it would fuck up our navigation pretty good while it was happening though, right?
Maybe, maybe not.  Taking see travel, for instance, at the one end we have the 'traditional' sailors who work by the sun and the stars, never using a compass, at the other end we have our technological marvels that have GPS and multiple other systems instead of relying on magnetic bearing[1].

Inbetween, there are people haven't got the full set of expensive equipment, and don't know a thing about the day/night sky.  But with GPS devices being ubiquitous on the one hand and star maps possibly downloadable to mobile phones for direct comparison/orientation with the night sky... "We've got an App for that..."

[1] In reality, bearing alone is not enough, anyway.  Which is one reason why Mr Harrison was so important.
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redacted123

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« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2009, 11:48:15 am »

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 02:52:38 pm by Stany »
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LegoLord

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Re: 2012
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2009, 06:03:28 pm »

Wouldn't the magnetic shift screw up our electronics as well? Or is the Earth's magnetic field not strong enough to affect them?
Not much, I think.  Earth's core is a big magnet, but a weak one.  If it were strong, we'd need to put a layer of lead in computers to protect them from the core.
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Neruz

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Re: 2012
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2009, 06:13:20 pm »

It would be a notable event and most probably would require some adjustment, possibly cause a bit of chaos, but it wouldn't be a mass extinction event.

it would fuck up our navigation pretty good while it was happening though, right?

Not really; it would certainly screw up compasses, but most modern navigation is done via GPS now anyway, and since we know that the magnetic reversal is possible, once it started happening it would be fairly quickly recognised and compasses would be dropped alltogether.

Wouldn't the magnetic shift screw up our electronics as well? Or is the Earth's magnetic field not strong enough to affect them?
Not much, I think.  Earth's core is a big magnet, but a weak one.  If it were strong, we'd need to put a layer of lead in computers to protect them from the core.

It might affect them, but it wouldn't 'screw them up' so to speak. The background magnetic field from the Earth isn't even remotely strong enough to affect anything but the most sensitive of electronic devices. Why do you think Compasses need to be suspended in water or otherwise have almost zero friction in turning?

Starver

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Re: 2012
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2009, 04:26:29 am »

Wouldn't the magnetic shift screw up our electronics as well? Or is the Earth's magnetic field not strong enough to affect them?
It doesn't at the moment (ok, so it's constant enough that you could argue that it's built in), so unless it did something really strange while shifting, or before depleting itself, it probably wouldn't.

Solar storms, they're the problem.  Power lines stretched across continents act like great big radio antenae and there are historic events that prove that these are susceptible.  If lack of magnetic field means solar storms 'getting through', then there may be a problem, but then again the magnetic field might be what is concentrating the 'electron flux' (or whatever technobabble term you want to put in here) into regions like Canada which have experienced this problem, so lack of an MF might prevent the problem concentrating.
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LegoLord

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Re: 2012
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2009, 03:47:46 pm »

If not, I wouldn't be surprised if we could rig up temporary magnets to guard those areas.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: 2012
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2009, 09:49:56 pm »

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Sysice

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Re: 2012
« Reply #102 on: January 18, 2010, 08:46:04 pm »

I think my favorite theory to bash on is that one website that says that the only way the Earth's magnetic field could change at all is if it started rotating the other way.

I really don't think 2012 will be all that special. Maybe some weird stuff and people doing crazy things and looking very embarrassed after the night is over, but...
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eerr

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Re: 2012
« Reply #103 on: January 18, 2010, 09:08:13 pm »

I think my favorite theory to bash on is that one website that says that the only way the Earth's magnetic field could change at all is if it started rotating the other way.

I really don't think 2012 will be all that special. Maybe some weird stuff and people doing crazy things and looking very embarrassed after the night is over, but...

The earth's magnetic core isn't stable. Someday the north pole will have an actual continent over it. Idk which one though.
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LegoLord

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Re: 2012
« Reply #104 on: January 18, 2010, 09:42:16 pm »

I think my favorite theory to bash on is that one website that says that the only way the Earth's magnetic field could change at all is if it started rotating the other way.

I really don't think 2012 will be all that special. Maybe some weird stuff and people doing crazy things and looking very embarrassed after the night is over, but...

The earth's magnetic core isn't stable. Someday the north pole will have an actual continent over it. Idk which one though.
If you're talking magnetic poles, the north already has a continent over it; Antarctica.  Magnetic north can't be near geographic north because the north end of a compass magnet points towards the general direction of geographic north, thus the magnetic pole near geographic north must be south in order to attract the compass.

If you're talking geographic poles, then the subject you're talking about is plate tectonics, not the earth's core.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember
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