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Author Topic: Dragon Age: Origins  (Read 34046 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #300 on: January 02, 2010, 07:52:31 pm »

What is odd is these allies were almost COMPLETELY unimportant

The Dwarves? They can't even help you
The Elves... There are hardly any!
Redcliff? There are what? less then a handful of guards
The Mages Guild: They make Redcliff seem like a legion

I really think the Story of Dragon Age is its weakest point.

As someone once said to me

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Though I figured it out. The REASON the game completely lacks a satisfying plot is because this game is based off of sequels. It isn't completing a story and going to the next one but rather setting up the next game.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 07:55:37 pm by Neonivek »
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S.K. Ren

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #301 on: January 02, 2010, 08:20:12 pm »

It is in my opinion that...

This game should have only been released on PC. It looks like Bioware built the game half-assed to make the modding community work harder. If you look at NWN and NWN2, the best content comes from the community. I know as soon as I get the PC version, the first thing I'm going to do Is make my own campaign that completely ignores the original such as:

Alistair: We need to go resolve these treaties.
Warden: You're right! Hey Alistair, what's that!?
Alistair: What's what? *turns around*
Warden: *Runs off*
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Simon-v: How do you live in a world where Everything's Trying To Kill You?
xander_morhaime: Briefly.

umiman

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #302 on: January 02, 2010, 09:20:06 pm »

Haha! That sounds awesome!

Krelian

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #303 on: February 08, 2011, 03:56:12 pm »

I started playing this this weekend... and Im a little frustrated

I started as a dwarf (obviously) noble (yeah I should jump on magma)... well my small brother deceived me into killing my big brother then get me exiled... then killed father... now I have come back to the dwarven city and there is king elections betwen my brother and a very nice old man that was friendly in the prologe. So clearly I will support him, and I even wanted to just outright kill my brother, but I couldnt do it.

So I allied to the old man faction, but I commited a mistake... I was suposed to represent him in the arena, but instead I fought under my name. So I wasnt able to complete that quest.. I was told I could do the other mission then betray my brother, but the right hard of the old man didnt belived me! and now wont talk to me! So now Im stuck in helping my damn brother? Argg and I wont be able to kill him? Arggg :(
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Farseer

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #304 on: February 08, 2011, 04:07:30 pm »

To be fair, Krelian, in the ending you find out...

Rakonas

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #305 on: February 08, 2011, 04:31:46 pm »

To be fair, Krelian, in the ending you find out...

This.
Personally I could see clearly that the other guy would be a shitty king, personally. I gave my brother an army of Golems and felt pretty confident he would be clearing those Deep Roads like a pro.
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #306 on: February 08, 2011, 04:36:55 pm »

To be fair, Krelian, in the ending you find out...

This.
Personally I could see clearly that the other guy would be a shitty king, personally. I gave my brother an army of Golems and felt pretty confident he would be clearing those Deep Roads like a pro.
Depends on what you meant by a 'good king', yes Bhelin does things that are obviously 'good' for the dwarves, and even the outside world, but he also suffers rebellions and becomes an utter tyrant and gets rid of the semi-demicratic Assembly which could pick the best king from anywhere in dwarves society and now it is likely going to be his eldest child. The other guy on the otherhand keeps this old system and suffers less rebellions due to keeping dwarves values.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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"Those who guard their back encounter death from the front." - Drow Proverb.
I will punch you in the soul if you do that again.
"I'm going to kill another dragon and then see if I can't DUAL-WIELD DRAGONS!
Because I can"-WolfTengu

Krelian

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #307 on: February 08, 2011, 05:12:07 pm »

To be fair, Krelian, in the ending you find out...


I never said I was looking for the greater good :p

the bitch made me look like a fool... and Im no elf, so this offense dies with one of us.

this is about revenge, I want to kill the bastard.. I was hoping to take the throne for myself (after all Im also a 'prince') but I guess that's not in the game alternatives
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #308 on: February 08, 2011, 05:47:42 pm »

It is not, but you can atleast become a paragon and do what I suggested, both to rub it in his face that he'll never be a paragon, and to fuck him over with the....events that follow what I suggested.
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"Those who guard their back encounter death from the front." - Drow Proverb.
I will punch you in the soul if you do that again.
"I'm going to kill another dragon and then see if I can't DUAL-WIELD DRAGONS!
Because I can"-WolfTengu

Glowcat

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #309 on: February 08, 2011, 05:58:39 pm »

Depends on what you meant by a 'good king', yes Bhelin does things that are obviously 'good' for the dwarves, and even the outside world, but he also suffers rebellions and becomes an utter tyrant and gets rid of the semi-demicratic Assembly which could pick the best king from anywhere in dwarves society and now it is likely going to be his eldest child. The other guy on the otherhand keeps this old system and suffers less rebellions due to keeping dwarves values.

At least midget Stalin is for equality among the people and eliminates the backwards Caste system that saw dwarves treated like dirt for how they were born. The dwarven Assembly was too corrupt a system and only supported the greed of the nobles anyway. Trading an Oligarchy for Dictatorship isn't a terrible direction, especially when the Dictator actually gets things done... like survival.
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Ampersand

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #310 on: February 08, 2011, 10:32:39 pm »

My feelings about Dragon Age: Origins, and generally Bioware games as a whole lately, is that the Script writing is excellent. The Story Writing, however, is terrible. I have a feeling as to why. With time deadlines, and large teams, there isn't any one person who writes the story. In every one of their games lately, there are several disconnected parts. Planets in Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic, Cities and towns in Dragon Age. In these, Everything; every quest and storyline event, is internally contained and does not have any effect on anything pertaining to the other modules of the game world as a whole. This is done to make the game Non-linear, such that the main story threads can be tackled in any given order.

The fact that these are so disconnected means that the writing team can be divided and each segment can be written individually by different teams. While obviously, there has to be some overlap to combine the whole to respect the presence of certain characters, most of the time the majority of party members that you acquire after the first linear bit, or whose acquisition is optional, may as well not exist, or are only given token throw away lines. This is also the reason why only the beginning of the game has real coherency and the ending often is the most linear, where the most railroading is. The beginning, everything is very well defined and there are few variables that the player could have effected, if any. The ending, there are so many variables, keeping track of every possibility, and making them flow together in a coherent and natural way is nearly impossible. The inclusion of DLC just further confuses things.

Take, for example, how regardless of Character class, the way the Player Character kills the Archdemon is always the same, even if they've never touched a sword in their lives.

Further, often the stories have Idiot Plots. Plots that rely on one character or another abjectly refusing to confront facts or ignore what's staring them in the face to create melodrama. The Council in Mass Effect is case in point. This is made even worse when they would rather believe transparently evil characters like Saren, or Lorghain. Again, I feel that this is a case of railroading, necessitated by the modular nature of the story that permits the Player to take quests in any sequence they care.

When it comes down to it, each individual story, the main storyline quests, are fairly good, internally consistent, and well written. It's when they attempt to tie them together that things begin to seem far less meaningful, far less interesting. At least to me. You finish one of the storyline quests and it seems like, "Whelp, that's done, lets never talk about it ever again."

The worst thing to me is how important these main quests are painted to be, how critical accomplishing them is, only to see absolutely nothing come of it aside from a few off hand references in the final quests. Mass Effect 2 kind of got it right, in that there was a clear possibility for degrees of success and failure, but it's never clearly obvious why you succeed or fail.

I feel the problem is that there is an industry wide resistance to making storylines internally contained, in favor of leaving things unresolved on the faintest possibility that their works can be turned into a franchise.
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #311 on: February 09, 2011, 12:06:36 am »

Further, often the stories have Idiot Plots. Plots that rely on one character or another abjectly refusing to confront facts or ignore what's staring them in the face to create melodrama. The Council in Mass Effect is case in point. This is made even worse when they would rather believe transparently evil characters like Saren, or Lorghain. Again, I feel that this is a case of railroading, necessitated by the modular nature of the story that permits the Player to take quests in any sequence they care.
Actually, the Council's actions in Mass Effect made perfect sense. As far as they could see, Shepard was batshit insane, considering your "warnings" about the Reapers came in the form of "I HAD A DREAM ABOUT DEATHDEATHDEATHDEATH WE MUST ACT OR WE'LL DIE BELIEVE ME!!!!!!!?!"

I also don't recall anyone but his cronies siding with Loghain. Even the mercenary assassins he hired to kill you decided to hire you to fight his cronies instead. He faced heavy resistance from various nobles, none of the factions you tried to gather sided with him, and the dwarves at least were openly hostile to him. They were all just distracted or divided too much to listen to what this random drifter claiming to be a Grey Warden says is totally going on.
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Taricus

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #312 on: February 09, 2011, 12:14:03 am »

Depends on what you meant by a 'good king', yes Bhelin does things that are obviously 'good' for the dwarves, and even the outside world, but he also suffers rebellions and becomes an utter tyrant and gets rid of the semi-demicratic Assembly which could pick the best king from anywhere in dwarves society and now it is likely going to be his eldest child. The other guy on the otherhand keeps this old system and suffers less rebellions due to keeping dwarves values.

At least midget Stalin is for equality among the people and eliminates the backwards Caste system that saw dwarves treated like dirt for how they were born. The dwarven Assembly was too corrupt a system and only supported the greed of the nobles anyway. Trading an Oligarchy for Dictatorship isn't a terrible direction, especially when the Dictator actually gets things done... like survival.

And doing it in a way that won't get him dumped into magma by the player.
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Ampersand

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #313 on: February 09, 2011, 12:40:09 am »

Actually, the Council's actions in Mass Effect made perfect sense. As far as they could see, Shepard was batshit insane, considering your "warnings" about the Reapers came in the form of "I HAD A DREAM ABOUT DEATHDEATHDEATHDEATH WE MUST ACT OR WE'LL DIE BELIEVE ME!!!!!!!?!"

I also don't recall anyone but his cronies siding with Loghain. Even the mercenary assassins he hired to kill you decided to hire you to fight his cronies instead. He faced heavy resistance from various nobles, none of the factions you tried to gather sided with him, and the dwarves at least were openly hostile to him. They were all just distracted or divided too much to listen to what this random drifter claiming to be a Grey Warden says is totally going on.

The problem with Mass Effect was that there was mountains of evidence that could be provided to the council to demonstrate, at the very least, that Saren was a rogue agent from the beginning, and upon that, later, even more evidence about the Reapers. There's the fact that even AFTER the Reaper attacks the Council itself in the Citadel itself, they refuse to acknowledge that they exist in Mass Effect 2.

Also, as for Loghain, it is heavily implied that he does have significant popular support, and the resistance to his rule is divided, and also refuse to believe that he did not support the King despite the transparently evil behavior he exposes with complete disregard for the possibility of being caught. The whole reason that there is drama about removing Loghain from power is because you have to convince people to oppose his rule in favor of someone else.
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Dragon Age: Origins
« Reply #314 on: February 09, 2011, 09:52:47 am »

Actually, the Council's actions in Mass Effect made perfect sense. As far as they could see, Shepard was batshit insane, considering your "warnings" about the Reapers came in the form of "I HAD A DREAM ABOUT DEATHDEATHDEATHDEATH WE MUST ACT OR WE'LL DIE BELIEVE ME!!!!!!!?!"

I also don't recall anyone but his cronies siding with Loghain. Even the mercenary assassins he hired to kill you decided to hire you to fight his cronies instead. He faced heavy resistance from various nobles, none of the factions you tried to gather sided with him, and the dwarves at least were openly hostile to him. They were all just distracted or divided too much to listen to what this random drifter claiming to be a Grey Warden says is totally going on.

The problem with Mass Effect was that there was mountains of evidence that could be provided to the council to demonstrate, at the very least, that Saren was a rogue agent from the beginning, and upon that, later, even more evidence about the Reapers. There's the fact that even AFTER the Reaper attacks the Council itself in the Citadel itself, they refuse to acknowledge that they exist in Mass Effect 2.

Also, as for Loghain, it is heavily implied that he does have significant popular support, and the resistance to his rule is divided, and also refuse to believe that he did not support the King despite the transparently evil behavior he exposes with complete disregard for the possibility of being caught. The whole reason that there is drama about removing Loghain from power is because you have to convince people to oppose his rule in favor of someone else.
About Mass Effect, before you get Tali's help it's essencially the word of a human who sounds crazy, and the council dislikes humans in the first place due to Space Speciesism, verses the word of a Specter implied to have their trust and to have done many many many things for the council before all this, it's obvious who they would side with. About the Reapers, if one has the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, and pays attention to a few other small things, it becomes noticable that the council DOES know about the Reapers, and is lieing to the public to prevent panic while also prepareing for the eventual attack. Plus there is also the whole 'gameplay-story segrigation' thing with Saren, if you pay attention he's only supposed to look how he does at the very end, due to getting implants after the cloneing facility. I assume Bioware didn't have time to give him a second Model for before that scene.

About Loghain, firstly, the man isn't 'evil' so much as 'rampently paranoid', and is likely slightly, or more, insane due to the things that happened during the occupation by fantasy-france. He is a war hero, idelized by almost everyone in the nation, has a ton of soldiers loyal to him and only him for several reasons, and was the best friend of King Maric, and is father in law to the recently dead king. All of those kinda add up to someone who people would want to trust, even if they aren't willing to ignore his paranoia, several  characters in the game hate fantasy-france as much as he does and suspect they would invade if allowed to help with the blight, they just aren't as bad as he is. There is also the fact that people, even in real life, never want the worst to happen and WILL try and to deny it's existance until it smashes them in the face, the last blight happened 400 years before, people wanted to believe this was just a large raid, not the frightening thing from their ancestor's stories. But otherwise, you do make good points about Bioware games in general with regards to their stories.
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"Those who guard their back encounter death from the front." - Drow Proverb.
I will punch you in the soul if you do that again.
"I'm going to kill another dragon and then see if I can't DUAL-WIELD DRAGONS!
Because I can"-WolfTengu
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