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[SaberToothTiger]

Rodnover, for political reasons.

[Archibald]

Christian/Catholic. Honestly, I make no distinction between the two, or any related to them. All worship the same God and have the same prayers. That is fine in my book. Person of faith and seeker of knowledge. I have no reason to see science and faith as enemies, more like two sides of the same coin really. One explains how and the other why. As for personal beliefs, I am aware that I cannot change/help someone if they don't want to change/help themselves. Of course, I will try, but if the answer is negative then I won't bother. Wish others understood that too. But it seems like I am asking too much from a society that is, sadly, slowly crumbling due to things like crime and corruption. A society that still hasn't realized it is dead.

[Tack]

Christian/Muslim. Honestly, I make no distinction between the two, or any related to them. All worship the same god and have the same son of Abraham. That is fine in my book.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

As for personal beliefs, I am aware that I cannot change/help someone if they don't want to change/help themselves. Of course, I will try, but if the answer is negative then I won't bother. Wish others understood that too.

Trying to convert people even casually is a really fucked up thing to do, just so you know.

Wish others understood that too. But it seems like I am asking too much from a society that is, sadly, slowly crumbling due to things like crime and corruption. A society that still hasn't realized it is dead.

Religion =/= morality, btw.

[Tack]

Trying to convert people even casually is a really fucked up thing to do, just so you know.
Religion =/= morality, btw.

1. I'd personally disagree. The whole idea of most faiths is that failing to believe in that faith is punished by "fate worse than death". With that kind of hanging over the heads of your friends and loved ones, casual conversion is maybe the "best option". 'Hey, you wanna save your soul? No? Okay, not my business'.

2. I agree hilariously. The times when religion had the most power seem to also be the times when crime and corruption were at their peak. Let's not forget that Pope who was a pirate gangster whose father got him to join the clergy so they could push power into Rome.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I mean, I 100% see where you are coming from on my first point. The thought of your friend's soul being forever damned unless you convert them is pretty scary. Of course, on the other side of things. From an atheistic point of view, you could say that it is also painful to watch your friend go about their life with a false sense of reality and self-being. Both parties think they are right, it is impossible to tell which is--if either are at all. In the end, I think it is fair to suggest that neither party attempt to convert the other. Neither wishes to be converted, and at the very least, it is rather rude to assume your position--with so many variables--is the superior or correct one EDIT: with such certainty as to take that position as undeniable truth.

Also, yes, on the second point--organized religion is satirically corrupt--to the point, imo, that it is hard to take seriously.

[Archibald]

I mean, I 100% see where you are coming from on my first point. The thought of your friend's soul being forever damned unless you convert them is pretty scary. Of course, on the other side of things. From an atheistic point of view, you could say that it is also painful to watch your friend go about their life with a false sense of reality and self-being. Both parties think they are right, it is impossible to tell which is--if either are at all. In the end, I think it is fair to suggest that neither party attempt to convert the other. Neither wishes to be converted, and at the very least, it is rather rude to assume your position--with so many variables--is the superior or correct one EDIT: with such certainty as to take that position as undeniable truth.

Also, yes, on the second point--organized religion is satirically corrupt--to the point, imo, that it is hard to take seriously.

Don't blame religion because Man likes to use every possible excuse for his political agendas. Also, one thing is for certain, nobody on this planet can tell me what comes after death with 100% certainty. I mean, just stop and think. How can you claim there is nothing after death when you (not you as you) know more about the moon than the planet our ancestors walked on for hundreds of thousands of years? I know what you are going to say, but my position comes from the holy book of my religion. To quote, "For I have faith and that is enough".

Let's not forget that Pope who was a pirate gangster whose father got him to join the clergy so they could push power into Rome.

Let's also not forget Bonaparte, Mao Zedong, Mussolini and Stalin. Your point? Just because there is one rotten apple in the basket doesn't mean that every other apple is rotten too.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

My dude, I literally said none of the things you responded with. I did not blame religion as an excuse for political agendas--although it has been oft used that way in historical and modern settings--I DID say that organized religion is corrupt, to which I will stick as there is far more than one rotten apple in the basket. I did not claim that I knew what came after death either, in fact I made a point of it to say that neither of us did, which is why it would be wrong to assume you know well enough what does to ethically convert someone.

Also, one of those things is not like the others.

EDIT: ALSO, you're literally just pointing out dictators who happen to be Atheists. There were plenty of pretty evil religious dictators as well--or dictators who used religion for evil. Etc. When you're the Pope.... it's kind of expected that you won't be an evil, politically-motivated, family scheming bastard.

[Teneb]

I have found very little that indicates Napoleon and Mussolini were atheists. Just, you know, putting it out here. I do like how you immediately went off to list them evil atheists. Please don't do that.

Disclaimer: I am neither atheist nor christian.

[Tack]

I mean who's even saying that Napoleon and Mussolini were evil

[Teneb]

I mean who's even saying that Napoleon and Mussolini were evil

Napoleon did nothing wrong.

[ChairmanPoo]

Well TBH Mussolini did gas a lot of people.

[Trekkin]

I know what you are going to say, but my position comes from the holy book of my religion. To quote, "For I have faith and that is enough".

They left out the words "for me" at the end of that, and that's unfortunate.

That you believe in something is no argument for its veracity, whether it's a premise or a book.

[Tack]

To fight tired regurgitation with tired regurgitation.

To quote, "For I have faith and that is enough"

To quote, "The burden of proof is on the believer."

To return to real discussion, I'd say that being a "true scotsman atheist" has to come with a massive side helping of bleak nihilism. Death is the cessation of electricity and chemicals, can come at any time without warning, and a person will have no way to see or know the effects of their life on the world after they leave.
Hedonistic Nihilism i.e. "Whatever doesn't hurt doesn't matter" would show that I'm better off pretending to be religious for the entirety of my life, going to church as needed and making all appropriate lip-service to the faith, because it doesn't hurt me and it probably makes grandma feel better.
Either due to pride or probably effort, I'm happier stubbornly refusing to believe and instead being a good person, and casting my defiance into the teeth of whatever would claim my soul anyway. In the eventuality that there is no afterlife, I've left the world an infinitesimally better place which is nice. In the possibility that there's a great judge who thinks it's more important that I believe in them than just live by the book without the belief, then they're not worthy.

Edit: My point, which got lost somewhere along the way as these things tend to go- is that nowhere in there am I under any stress to "educate" the indoctrinated. I envy the faithful their faith, and while I roll my eyes when a friend says their knee got healed after praying instead of resting, I'd die before becoming the atheist who always has to be ready to poke holes in people's stuff.
Ergo, I can't say it's a two-way street

[Egan_BW]

nobody on this planet can tell me what comes after death with 100% certainty.

Actually, I can. Now, stop me if this sounds too outlandish, but I am totally convinced that what comes after death is being dead.