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Author Topic: A Bunch of Questions  (Read 1876 times)

Huggz

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A Bunch of Questions
« on: October 09, 2009, 01:29:30 am »

Well, I have loads of quetions, so here they are :P :

1) I have water coming from my flooded chamber trap to an underground reservoir, but it doesnt seem to be evaporating. How do I make sure it does, or is it possible to send it off the edge of the map or something if that isnt possible?

2) Is it possible to have two floodgates both hooked to one lever, but when one is open the other is closed and vice versa? If so, how?

3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?

4) Do tame animals that are not pets need to be fed?

5) What should I make with a vein of aluminium that I found to make a profit?

6) Do jewelers work with all crystals like zircon or just well-known ones like ruby, sapphire etc?

7) Is it possible to capture wild animals suck as camels that are wandering the map (They are not tame, they were on the map when I arrived)?

EDIT:

8) Is it possible to install a floodgate then mine out the block behind it which is holding the water back without the floodgate being open? I had to open it for my dwarf to get there, but then water got in...

Thanks for your time ;)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 01:31:04 am by Huggz »
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goatunit

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 01:45:18 am »

I'm new myself, but here's what I know.

1) Water will only evaporate at a depth of 1/7. Even then, it often takes awhile. Check your water depth with "k" or change your .init file so that water displays it's depth.

2) I don't think this is possible, but again, I'm new.

3) Three floodgates will work. Unlike doors, floodgates do not need an adjacent wall. Although, I prefer a drawbridge over a chasm/moat.

4) I do not believe that anything other than your dwarves need food. Regardless, I know that no animals, tame or otherwise, need food. I believe, though, that an animal trainer uses food to tame wild animals.

7) You can set a job at a kennel to capture live land animals, but I've had trouble getting this to work myself. I know you need a cage and an animal trap (both can be built by a carpenter) and a dwarf with the "trapper" skill enabled. But, like I said, I haven't had any luck with this.

8) If I understand your question correctly, this can be tricky. I haven't been very adventurous with channel building (and haven't even played on a map with magma) yet, but I generally dig down into such an area and do not develop the area further until I've got my water channel going. Then it's a simple matter of setting the up ramp / stairs near the floodgate and placing a control lever one level up. Have the miner dig out the rock and let the water come in. When he runs away (hopefully upstairs) just have him pull the lever to close the floodgate.

If, on the other hand, you mean that your dwarf got trapped on the other side of a floodgate while installing it, have him deconstruct the floodgate and build it again - whether this was done on purpose or not, I don't know, but the builder will generally move to install it from the opposite side than the first time.
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Malicus

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 02:05:59 am »

goatunit is mostly correct.  However, for 7), you need to catch the animal in a cage trap.  You can't generate a job at a kennel (or anywhere) to catch a non-vermin animal.

For 8), if the z-level above that natural wall is not also holding back water or otherwise in use, you can designate a channel on that z-level above the natural wall you want to remove.  This can be dangerous if you aren't really comfortable with channels and z-levels, though, as you may manage to dig through something you don't want to dig through.

For the unanswered parts...

5) Aluminum is rare, so it is probably best saved for moods and noble mandates and demands, rather than trying to sell it.

6) Gemcutters can cut any rough gem.  Gemsetters work with any gem that has been cut (excluding large gems, which are considered crafts instead of gems).  Raw glass counts as a rough gem.
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Ziusudra

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 04:06:54 am »

1) Dig a drain to the edge of the map. You can't remove the tiles at the very edge but you can smooth them and then carve fortifications. The water will then exit the map. Be sure to do all this before flooding the drain. EDIT: You can also drain into chasms, bottomless pits and aquifers.

2) Build both floodgates and the lever. Link the lever to one of the floodgates then pull the lever. That floodgate will open then you link the same lever to the other still closed floodgate.

3) A raising bridge can be built without a channel and when raised will act as a wall. EDIT: Be sure not to lower it onto anything you want to keep.

4) No animals need to be fed.

5) Crafts for trading or furniture for nobles that like aluminum. EDIT: And, yes, save some for mandates and moods.

6) Anything listed here http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Gems

7) Only by building cage traps where they can catch the animals.

8) Yes, by channeling from above.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 04:12:28 am by Ziusudra »
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DeathOfRats

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 04:36:49 am »

2) Build both floodgates and the lever. Link the lever to one of the floodgates then pull the lever. That floodgate will open then you link the same lever to the other still closed floodgate.

Sorry, but no dice. When you link them, sure you have one open and one closed, but then you pull the lever, and you end with two closed floodgates. And the next time you pull it again, two open floodgates.

Floodgates, doors, etc. don't work on toggle. Instead, they get an "on" signal from the trigger, and they open. They get an "off" signal, and they close (with 100 tick delays for floodgates and bridges, which will ignore any further signals while in that delay).

You can do something like that using water (or magma), a powered screw pump or two, and a pressure plate, but that might be more complicated than the OP is looking for.
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Kav

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 03:49:30 pm »

Quote from: Huggz


3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?

You wait a raising (default is retracting) drawbridge. Look at your options on the right when you are building it and make sure it raises in the proper direction.

And actually carpenters do NOT construct animal traps. They are issued at the carpenters shop yes, (and also the metal forge) but a trapper goes there and actually makes it.
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goatunit

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 04:31:12 pm »

And actually carpenters do NOT construct animal traps. They are issued at the carpenters shop yes, (and also the metal forge) but a trapper goes there and actually makes it.

Ah!
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Reese

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 04:44:13 pm »

Well, I have loads of quetions, so here they are :P :

1) I have water coming from my flooded chamber trap to an underground reservoir, but it doesnt seem to be evaporating. How do I make sure it does, or is it possible to send it off the edge of the map or something if that isnt possible?
water evaporates only when it is 1/7, after that, all it takes is time
2) Is it possible to have two floodgates both hooked to one lever, but when one is open the other is closed and vice versa? If so, how?
No, but you can use a raising bridge instead... or you can check the wiki for fluid logic and use an inverter setup, but that's not a direct link, and introduces delay.
3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?
use a raising bridge
4) Do tame animals that are not pets need to be fed?
No
5) What should I make with a vein of aluminium that I found to make a profit?
*shrug*
6) Do jewelers work with all crystals like zircon or just well-known ones like ruby, sapphire etc?
All gemstones, which includes almost any crystal you can mine and raw glass
7) Is it possible to capture wild animals suck as camels that are wandering the map (They are not tame, they were on the map when I arrived)?
Yes
EDIT:

8) Is it possible to install a floodgate then mine out the block behind it which is holding the water back without the floodgate being open? I had to open it for my dwarf to get there, but then water got in...

Thanks for your time ;)
yes, by channeling out the square above the one you need removed; this requires access, though, and could cause FUN if that is also below water level(if pressurized, or two below water level if unpressurized)
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Lormax

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 08:12:06 am »

3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?

For those of you that have answered yes, to use a bridge, won't that make the trade caravans turn their wagons around immediately when they spawn, because the depot is unaccessible?
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SquirrelWizard

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 08:28:42 am »

you'd keep the bridge lowered until fun stuff arrives.

Also, you'd keep it lowered until the said fun stuff got within marksdwarf range, then you would raise it.

otherwise the fun stuff just mills around picking its nose at the edge of your map.
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Starver

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 09:00:34 am »

3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?

For those of you that have answered yes, to use a bridge, won't that make the trade caravans turn their wagons around immediately when they spawn, because the depot is unaccessible?

That would apply to any blocking measure, to be fair.

If you want to have it invader-proof(/resistant) and yet produce 'wagon accessible' conditions for the Depot, you could always dig (or bridge) a long and/or winding 'diversion' tunnel(/viaduct), from one side of the barrier to the other side and then preferably chain up an animal or two to pick up sneaky invaders who try to use that route.

The wagons are able to find a path (albeit a long one), so will arrive on the edge of the playing area with the usual announcement, knowing that they can head towards it, then you can open up the barrier in time for them to pass through the direct cut (or, if it's one of those strange fast wagons, it may not matter too much that they're going 10-100 times as far on one stretch).

Equipping the diversion with its own (normally open) barriers in strategic places, and (normally closed) side-entrances designed for troops or perhaps even liquid floods would allow you to handle invaders who decided to take that route in.  Either shut the route off ahead of them, so there is no longer access (for now forgoing the possibility of wagons), or sprinkle troops (or floods) in from the side to battle them, or just smash them with some offensive architecture (e.g. strategic corridor-width atom-smashers coming out of the walls), according to taste, ability and imagination.

One of my designs has a version of the "Siege Switch" bring to bear both the might of ballistas/catapults down the entryway (lowering bridges against which they usually practice their shots) and also force the lengthening of the route outwards so that I get more time to fire at any demoralised and retreating attackers (and/or get them trapped in cages that dot the new outward route) that I have managed to lure that deep into the complex.  But it hasn't really had a good test, yet.  So far the tethered elephants seem to scare off the invaders before I can actually bring the siege weaponry to bear on them.

Of course, if you regularly have your own dwarfs wander in and out of your entrance, you might have to modify the plan to avoid too much pathing delay in the process.  Maybe a 'side-gate' past most of the 'wagon tunnel' making it a moderately short length, aronud which you can station tame animals and military to highlight any sneakers.
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HammerHand

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 07:03:46 am »

7) You can set a job at a kennel to capture live land animals, but I've had trouble getting this to work myself. I know you need a cage and an animal trap (both can be built by a carpenter) and a dwarf with the "trapper" skill enabled. But, like I said, I haven't had any luck with this.

This is an unfortunate misunderstanding (that I also experienced).  "Capturing a wild animal" from the Kennel refers to a Trapper using an Animal Trap (built at the carpenter's by a Trapper) to capture vermin.  That is, turtles, bugs, purring maggots, small birds, and maybe fish if you have an animal trap of glass (I'm not sure this actually can work).

What the question refers to, however, are Camels.  LARGE animals (any animal that isn't Vermin) can only be captured via cage trap, and then may be tamed by an animal trainer.  The taming process uses a random piece of food.  Tame animals other than dogs are only useful for zoos, trading, and breeding for your meat industry, as only dogs can be trained (without modding the game).

Other notes on taming:
1.)  If the tamer uses a plant to feed their animal, it will leave a seed in the cage.  You'll have to manually dump this if you want to re-use the cage.
2.)  Animals cannot breed while in cages, but they can give birth in cages if they are put in there after their spore-breeding occurs.  There is no way to tell if this has happened or not.  You just might get a "has given birth to a" message after caging everything.  In order to breed animals, you'll have to put them on chains.  Or let them wander around your meeting areas.  Tame animals give birth to tame animals, so fortunately you'll never have to tame your baby camels.
3.)  Only tame animals can should be moved from one cage to another (or butchered).  Wild animals will probably attack any haulers that attempt to move them.
4.)  All this is completely unnecessary, as the animal industry is thoroughly lacking.
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dogstile

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 07:52:21 am »

7) You can set a job at a kennel to capture live land animals, but I've had trouble getting this to work myself. I know you need a cage and an animal trap (both can be built by a carpenter) and a dwarf with the "trapper" skill enabled. But, like I said, I haven't had any luck with this.

This is an unfortunate misunderstanding (that I also experienced).  "Capturing a wild animal" from the Kennel refers to a Trapper using an Animal Trap (built at the carpenter's by a Trapper) to capture vermin.  That is, turtles, bugs, purring maggots, small birds, and maybe fish if you have an animal trap of glass (I'm not sure this actually can work).

What the question refers to, however, are Camels.  LARGE animals (any animal that isn't Vermin) can only be captured via cage trap, and then may be tamed by an animal trainer.  The taming process uses a random piece of food.  Tame animals other than dogs are only useful for zoos, trading, and breeding for your meat industry, as only dogs can be trained (without modding the game).

Bears can totally be used for something other than meat, trading and a zoo

guard bears anyone?
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Albedo

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 12:55:34 pm »

2) Build both floodgates and the lever. Link the lever to one of the floodgates then pull the lever. That floodgate will open then you link the same lever to the other still closed floodgate.

There is something about this game that invites answers when the poster has never had any experience with what they're saying, just making something up.  I did the same thing when I first landed, with the same confidence, and just as dead-ass wrong.

Newbies -  DF is not "logical" in the way of "common sense". Don't guess. It has a logic, but it's all its own, following its own rules. Learn those rules, don't guess, save yourself headaches. (The Wiki is a good place to start.)

Quote
3) A raising bridge can be built without a channel and when raised will act as a wall. EDIT: Be sure not to lower it onto anything you want to keep.

Correct.  With one exception1, levers don't "toggle" on/off - they have an "ON" state, and an "OFF" state.  For doors, floodgates and hatches, ON = OPEN and OFF = CLOSED - there is no way to get them into the opposite phase2.  However, for bridges, ON = UP and OFF = DOWN, so, as Z correctly suggests, if you connect a door and a drawbridge to the same lever, ON = door open and bridge up (shut tight against a hallway), and OFF = door shut and bridge down (opening the passage). 

Make sure the bridge is more than 1 tile long - don't worry about "height" when it's up. (Say it with me -  Forget your logic, learn DF logic.)

1) mechanisms attached to levers toggle on/off, regardless of "state" of the lever.
2) if you do, they simply don't respond until the lever is in the correct phase.


Quote
3) Is there something I can use to block off the 3-wide path to my underground trade area when it isnt in use?

You can build a drawbridge at the front, but if you're playing vanilla DF, just carpet the entrance with traps.  Make sure there's an L or two to protect your mechanics and haulers who clean up after the gobbos rush blindly into them. Eventually a siege might come that is truly a wave attack, but BY THEN YOU WILL HAVE MILITARY. (That's a hint.)

Quote
5) What should I make with a vein of aluminium that I found to make a profit?

Don't trade it - you shouldn't have to resort to that.

Aluminum is tied as THE most valuable substance (short of adamantine).  Save it for your most skilled masons and/or mechanics to make Statues or Mechanisms, and then install those where the Created Wealth will add to your migration waves - more dwarves for the machine.

For trading, put your mason on making rock mugs for a season - that's all you need at first, and later you can trade away useless goblin clothing too.

Quote
7) Is it possible to capture wild animals suck as camels that are wandering the map (They are not tame, they were on the map when I arrived)?

Yes. Make a large X-shaped barrier on the map (walls, channels, or removed slopes), with a passage at the intersection, where the "X" crosses. Put your cage-traps there.


All of these questions and more are answered in the Wiki, with more related questions that you haven't thought to ask yet. Read the wiki, it is your friend.

In the above cases, recommended articles are found by the key words in the questions - evaporation, trade, aluminum, animal, trap, etc etc.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 01:45:43 pm by Albedo »
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HammerHand

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Re: A Bunch of Questions
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 04:03:16 pm »


Bears can totally be used for something other than meat, trading and a zoo

guard bears anyone?

While I know for a fact I had the opportunity to do this (as well as guard leopards and other things), I believe I was using the Legendary Lands mod at the time, and so I'm not sure it's in vanilla DF.
That doesn't make it any less awesome.

Also, this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 08:23:15 am by HammerHand »
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