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[The Architect]

Hi, I am The Architect.

Cheesy, i know, but I was thinking literally when i chose my nickname for this forum. A great Architect, planner and executor of projects extraordinaire. At least, so one can believe of oneself until seeing some of the fortresses (other) people have created.

Enough with the introduction. I would like to organize a contact group for Dwarf Fortress succession games. If anything of the kind already exists, please post any information you have to direct me toward it. I am willing to organize games and keep a pool of interested players on hand for any number of games and leaders. Designing your own fortress is fun and all, but having absolute control makes things a little dull to my mind. I would prefer to interact with other people and build on each other person's ideas.

***If this is too much of a readthrough for you then just post your thoughts on an organized "League" below, and having said this I expect no comments objecting to those who have not read the long list of ideas. However, if you have a new idea (beyond "yes", "no", "lovely", "i hate it") to submit please read all the posts.***

 To my thinking, the perfect succession game has a minimum of 3 and maximum of 4 players. Some will disagree, and please post your own opinions. My reasoning is that two people can't mix it up enough, however creative they are, and end up getting things back too soon, allowing them to control the direction of the fort easily (exactly NOT the point of a DF succession game). Sure, it can be a hell of a lot of fun to share it with one friend, but honestly the human interaction there is very simple: either you directly cooperate or each person does his own thing. Boring? Indeed! However, with more than 4, a player's decisions begin to have less and less consequence for their own future turns, and the natural result is something along the line of Boatmurdered: absolute and glorious mayhem! Otherwise known as losing or "Fun". While Boatmurdered is tons of fun reading-wise and the reporting was really well done, it was painful to see players who couldn't construct a locked door to block smoke, or organize archers and/or towers to control elephant population, etc, alternating with players who just wanted to use their year to make a mark on "BM", frustrating the efforts of others who tried to keep it afloat. However, if debacles are your thing they'll be welcome too.

Anyway, with 3-4 players you have a huge stake in what's happening, as you yearn for your next chance to kick some more ass and show off your abilities, improving on what your friends have done and generally one-upping each other. I would love to have Boatmurdered's world generation info for such a game, if it would work with the current version **Magma, underground river, flux, cliff, river, medium trees, and elephants on one map!**

~~~~~~~~~
Alright, well there's a lovely forum here and players can post reports wherever they like. Hopefully our group could find a nice place to have a home forum tab, somewhere like the Wiki (or maybe Toady will give us one here).

If you wish to join the "League" then please post a reply saying so and include any ideas you have; they will be warmly received. Here is what I have thought of while typing this:

Newsletter type updates by request and/or subscription, or a page, with players' stats listed as follows:

Name     ~Activity ~League Experience ~Ability Rating ~Personality Rating  ~Availability ~Notes
Example1 Active    5 Games                 4+                 4                          Available   known for RP
Example2 Inactive  1 Games                 1                   N/A                      Feb 2010    inventive
Example3 Active    6 Games                 4                   8                          Available   witty

This is simply information to help others pick from players they don't know. Each player would rate the others at the time of the fortress' demise or the agreed end of the game, and send a rating for:

recommend: -1, 0, +1 (did they maul your fort beyond recognition with incompetence, contribute little, or excel?)
Personality: 1-10 (how well did you like this player, apart from playing skill?)
Notes: (brief description of notable characteristics)

This survey info then would be used to calculate the attributes show in the table. Notice Ex1 has only played 4 games and received overall positive ratings in all of them, but his personality rating is low. Perhaps the players he was with didn't appreciate his Role Playing? Ex2 played one game long enough to show some skill but dropped out, and his teammates didn't feel they could rate his personality, but they left him a nice note. Ex3 has not made skill 5 in 6 games, showing perhaps a rough start, but his teammates really enjoyed his company. With a dedicated page perhaps players could leave "reviews". Whether you would care to read them or care who joins your game is your business. But if you want a rookie game, you could find rookies, if you want a "pro" game, you could have it.

Included in the Newsletter or page would be
"Example1 is looking for players for an open-ended one-year per ruler succession game, non looping"
"Example 2 is looking for 3 players for looping one-year succession game, 12 years"
etc

Current Games
 Endfall
  Kook, Nacker, Architect, Murder101 (full)
   yr5 as of 09/22/09 (open ended)
   *link to update page*
 Hailnation
  Goober, LosingIsFun, Kevlar, EndtimeProfessor, ... (one-year non-looping)
   yr1 as of 10/01/09
   *link to update page*
   *apply*
 Glazespray
  OtherPlayer, Offal (1 needed)
   has not begun
   *no log available*
   *apply*


etc.
Applicants would leave a note and/or contact info from the link for the game leader and/or participants via PM or email and (most likely) be accepted. We're all very accepting people.

I think with an organized system like this, playing DF succession any way you want would be a breeze! With a short program to handle mathematics and another to format output and the page/Newsletter, it would be largely hands-off.

[sava2004]

I would like to be the first to join the League.

I have nothing to add, cause ur post was so awesome, it described EVERYTHING.

[Heron TSG]

Wait, so everyone is ranked and then drafted into successions?

I wonder what MY comments would look like, having done mainly Sparkgears...

[sava2004]

*looks at barb's sig*

Like that.

[kilakan]

I'd like to join one, any one.

[killaconcarnage]

I Wanna Join

[Chewykittens]

I would like to join. I just joined my first succesion game (Sava's Constructrain game)
It would be nice to see how people view me from the get-go.

[Dead Winter Reigns]

This sounds awesome to me. Sign me up.

[Dante`]

I'm game, I need practice with this sort of things, You could easily find a 'free forum' setup, as well as free wiki space.  By combining multiple different 'free' 'applications' and 'resources' you can truely make this epic.  IE: wiki holds current logs as well as updated player pages. Forums is where its actually done and the like.  I really like the idea and yea go for it need any help tell me what I can do.

[The Architect]

Awesome! Thank you, enthusiastic response is just what I was hoping for!

I'm game, I need practice with this sort of things, You could easily find a 'free forum' setup, as well as free wiki space.  By combining multiple different 'free' 'applications' and 'resources' you can truely make this epic.  IE: wiki holds current logs as well as updated player pages. Forums is where its actually done and the like.  I really like the idea and yea go for it need any help tell me what I can do.

I will definitely need help finding the resources, so please offer any suggestions and help you can! (more in a PM soon) I will sign up as a Wiki editor tonight (now) and create a basic page, then begin linking relevant pages (succession, boatmurdered, etc). Included will be the beginning of the list of members and their profiles! This is dependent on how quickly the Wiki gives me permission to do such things, of course.

Will update with a post of all the new members as soon as it's done, and send a private message with a link to each of you. Again, thanks to everyone for the encouragement!

[Tack]

A minor suggestion, ifyouwill...

I've noticed that for both personality and gameplay, the options available are 1, 0, and -1.
Therefore, win, average, or lose.
I feel that this doesn't give rating players enough ability to pick out a preference, as there will be some players so polite that they give +1 to both regardless of skill or personality, and vice versa.

It also means that some players will end up with scores of 49 or something, pending to their massive amount of succession games played in, and not to their actual ability. Some people starting succession games also might, say, pick the top four players, simply because they're likely to be the best for their fortress... (I probably would.)

Therefore, a proposal I have, which you all may feel free to reject, is that the people "rating" the player at that time choose a number from one to ten (including halves), of their rating of destructive to skilled, or boring to entertaining. This way, an average of 0 to 50 or 100 can be ascertained, to easily document each player's skills.

Other than that, feel free to sign me up.

[The Architect]

Wait, so everyone is ranked and then drafted into successions?

I wonder what MY comments would look like, having done mainly Sparkgears...

Editing page at the moment, on Members section. joining?

[The Architect]

A minor suggestion, ifyouwill...

I've noticed that for both personality and gameplay, the options available are 1, 0, and -1.
Therefore, win, average, or lose.
I feel that this doesn't give rating players enough ability to pick out a preference, as there will be some players so polite that they give +1 to both regardless of skill or personality, and vice versa.

It also means that some players will end up with scores of 49 or something, pending to their massive amount of succession games played in, and not to their actual ability. Some people starting succession games also might, say, pick the top four players, simply because they're likely to be the best for their fortress... (I probably would.)

Therefore, a proposal I have, which you all may feel free to reject, is that the people "rating" the player at that time choose a number from one to ten (including halves), of their rating of destructive to skilled, or boring to entertaining. This way, an average of 0 to 50 or 100 can be ascertained, to easily document each player's skills.

Other than that, feel free to sign me up.

Very sharp of you, and actually I had a plan for this. After skill 4, a player would need to receive a # of +1 to move up, and a # of -1 to move down. This is why Ex1 has "4+". After 9, only 2/3 majority votes from his teammates would count as a single +1 or -1, and a rating mixed in of the opposite kind would give him +0. A disgruntled player who didn't like the way his character died won't knock you down; adversely nearly everyone must appreciate your contributions for you to continue to advance.

As far as personality, I was thinking straight average of all ratings 1-10. If you reread I think you'll see that personality isn't rated the same way, and I should have noted that it doesn't "add up". Skill can be proven over long-term, and indeed is built through experience. But you can't have a better personality rating than anyone else can just because you play a lot.

Was adding members when I read this, going back to it. Update and link soon.
Edit: Forgot to mention that someone can only move up 1 rank per game. The system will definitely need tweaking and should be further discussed on the wiki's Discussion page.

[Tack]

Ah... that solves all of my problems.

So therefore the # needed to raise a rank after four will raise for every level?

[The Architect]

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please avoid post here unless you have questions about joining or want to notify us that you are joining. Further Ideas and discussion specifically about the League and its policies should take place at the Discussion page:

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Succession_League

Here is the page. The formatting needs work; it doesn't show up the way it looks in the box. however, this will be fixed. Members are listed there, and are currently as follows:

Members: The Architect Barbarossa the Seal God (2?) Chewykittens (5) Dante` (7) Dead Winter Reigns (6) kilakan (3) killaconcarnage(4) sava2004 (1) Tack (

Members and prospective members link here to join the Wiki: http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Special:UserLogout