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Author Topic: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?  (Read 6270 times)

Jetlaw

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What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« on: October 05, 2009, 04:42:32 pm »

I'm kinda useless at designing fortresses. Now I started with vanilla but I'm playing Dig Deeper now. Unfortunately I enjoy really efficient fortresses, which means I spend more time laying out than actually playing. But that's where the problem lies, I suck at making quick and efficient layouts that are modular as my fortress increases.

Usually my levels go as such:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And I have rooms as such:

Workshop
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stockpile
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Noble
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Peasant
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Of course XXX stairs all match up between Z levels and the workshop X's match up to the stockpile Xs.

I usually have an above-ground complex over my main XXX entrance which is a main barracks where I have most of my soldiers hang out. Channel + drawbridge make up the defenses, although if the river is kind enough my above-ground entrance is turned into a drowning chamber where I can pull a lever, raise two drawbridges and then flood anything nasty (which allows me to cut down on a military until I have enough dwarves to support my fortress AND kill invaders.

What are other people's building methods? How do you make a clean and efficient fortress?
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Derakon

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 05:03:03 pm »

In my opinion, efficiency is overrated. You end up with lots of fortresses that all look the same. I've done the "maximal efficiency" fort in the past, and while it's fun at first to rack up millions of wealth as quickly as possible, it rapidly loses its charm. I've been trying to grow my fortresses more organically lately. It helps, I find, to lay the groundwork for any fluid-requiring projects (e.g. pumping towers, magma feeds, power lines) and then build the fortress around them. Slap rooms down not where they're most efficient, but wherever is convenient. Mix aboveground constructions with underground tunnels -- have pathways that go onto the surface and then back underground (only works if you don't rely on the "dwarves stay indoors" command). And so on.
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kefkakrazy

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 05:10:01 pm »

I have a main shaft going down a couple levels (I usually leave at least one level completely undisturbed except for shafts, because I like to use collapses as defenses and don't want them punching through the floors). The main shaft enters into a small hallway that connects to another main shaft, this one generally going all the way to the lowest level.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That little disconnect between the shafts makes it easier to defend (by blocking the hallway there off with floodgates or bars, one can force an invading army to route to a much longer, more dangerous pathway).

After that, I connect to the main shaft with large, open rooms for stockpiles. Past those (or inside those), I build workshops to relate to the goods stored in the stockpile. (One stockpile holds certain items, like plants, fish, and thread, that need to be processed. It'll be surrounded by looms, farmer's workshops, and fisheries. Another stockpile holds meat, processed/cookable/brewable plants, and is surrounded by kitchens and stills.

The pantry is on its own level with nothing else there, and contains two large rooms (one booze stockpile and one prepared meal stockpile). It's generally a level below the workshops, and a level below the pantry, I have a dining room and the lever control chamber.

Basically, I sort everything vertically. On one level, I have farming and most food industry. On another level, valuable production industry (metals, cloth), and on another, bulk production industry (stone/wood/bonecrafting, masonry, carpentry, etc). Those are all clustered together on three or four z-levels. Below that is the pantry, and generally on an adjacent z-level, there's the dining room and the levers. The levers are on the same level as the dining room (just opposite) since that puts them in easy reach of the largest concentration of off-duty dwarves.

As for each level...

The structure I use a lot is thus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stockpiles connect to that hallway. Only one of those stairways leads out of the fort, but the fact that there's two means that a dwarf doesn't have to tramp all the way across a stockpile area to get some booze. It shortens everyone's paths and keeps congestion down.

As for the rest of the z-levels... I put the bedrooms one or two z-levels up from the bottom of the map, and mine out the very bottom whenever my miners are bored. I use flood traps and don't want to accidentally flood the fort; the open bottom level is a nice drain. The bedrooms are isolated from most noise, though i've been known to place workshops on the bottom level (to take advantage of the ready-to-hand stone piles).
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denito

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 06:36:53 pm »

In my opinion, efficiency is overrated. You end up with lots of fortresses that all look the same. I've done the "maximal efficiency" fort in the past, and while it's fun at first to rack up millions of wealth as quickly as possible, it rapidly loses its charm. I've been trying to grow my fortresses more organically lately. It helps, I find, to lay the groundwork for any fluid-requiring projects (e.g. pumping towers, magma feeds, power lines) and then build the fortress around them. Slap rooms down not where they're most efficient, but wherever is convenient. Mix aboveground constructions with underground tunnels -- have pathways that go onto the surface and then back underground (only works if you don't rely on the "dwarves stay indoors" command). And so on.

I've done this naturally since I started playing.  I like to follow the natural shape of the mountain peak with my rooms and hallways.  I look at a weird rock formation and say "hmmm... this looks like a farm with a trade depot down the hall from it".  But then I saw other's huge symmetric fortresses and read the wiki article on efficiency and thought "man my fortress design sucks".  Reading your post somehow makes me feel good about my designs again.
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Skorpion

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 07:08:00 pm »

- Huge, sprawling open spaces.
- Trunk-and-branch bedrooms.
- Small-dispersed food stockpiles.
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RedWick

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 07:10:56 pm »

I've done this naturally since I started playing.  I like to follow the natural shape of the mountain peak with my rooms and hallways.  I look at a weird rock formation and say "hmmm... this looks like a farm with a trade depot down the hall from it".  But then I saw other's huge symmetric fortresses and read the wiki article on efficiency and thought "man my fortress design sucks".  Reading your post somehow makes me feel good about my designs again.

I always build my fortresses around interesting looking natural land formations.  I'll forgo having the fun stuff (magma or chasms or whatever) if I can build a fort around a few close hills.  My forts end up being a fairly even mix between above ground and underground structures.  Efficiency is mostly a secondary thought, though I will do what I can to set up areas for my different industries (eg: farms devoted to just pig tails will be near a farmers workshop, the looms and the clothing makers; or wood stockpiles near carpenter's shops and wood burner furnaces).

One thing I always do is set up separate stockpiles for my seeds, my unprocessed/uncooked food, and the finished food products.  Outdoor seeds go near any outdoor farms I might have.  Same thing for indoor seeds.  And I'll scatter any number of small booze stockpiles all over my forts.  Given how often dwarves like to drink, this saves quite a bit of time.  Also, I'll set up one grand dining room and have a small number of lesser ones scattered around.  Can't have too many, in my opinion.  :D
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Kravick

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2009, 07:26:17 pm »

My forts tend to have only one entrance guarded by ether a wall built into the side of the mountain or a castle/keep set up surrounding the hole in the ground depending where I embark.  My design philosophy is "If it fits, build it."  As a rule I try to keep at least a 2 space wall thickness from the outside to any given point inside my fortress if I am building on the same level as the entrance to my fortress.  I don't typically use modular designs, but I tend to try to keep things symmetrical if possible and certain things near one another like my food stores and kitchens close to my dining room and stockpiles some what close to the corresponding workshop.  If there is magma those workshops get a level all of their own.
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Mechanoid

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 07:42:34 pm »

2 lowest levels for plumbing.
Then above that plumbing is the entire fortress, spread over the level in 2D with minimal z-level use. Generally, i try to stick to a maximum 6x6 like the old 2D, and have 2-tile thick walls so every room gets the proper engravings. When i make z-spanning areas, up/down staircases are used to accurately dig out the shape, sometimes i try to make arches. Smooth all the walls and channel the stairs from the highest point downwards to the floor, and remove the up staircases there; a giant hall that's completely smooth.

Also, DF Tweak with adjust start so i get 114 dwarves, 30 of the last male dwarves are crossbow users. Why males? No children followers when they get married and have kids, and enough of them to not have to worry about that stupid population:military ratio.
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Untelligent

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 08:29:20 pm »

In my current fort, I just build whatever I goddamn feel like. I've been doing that for 25 game years, and the architectural value of the fortress is quite extensive.

The epitome of this philosophy is my Captain of the Guard's keep, which was created by slapping together random bits of architecture until I had something with three rooms in it. I have yet to build the Dwarven Prison of Unpleasantness, though, which will be attached to the Keep. It's one of the last two bits of my "old fort" I have yet to move to my "new fort," the other of which will be going in my Dungeon Master's lair on the off-chance that Hidden Clown Stuff attracts dungeon masters.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 09:10:19 pm »

Z LEVELS.  Do not think on a flat plane.  Think in terms of spheres; how fast a Dwarf can go from point A to point B.  Put the farms right above the kitchens which are right above the food supply; it's so much faster then having them all on the same level.

Z levels are ze key.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 10:42:48 pm »

Z LEVELS.  Do not think on a flat plane.  Think in terms of spheres; how fast a Dwarf can go from point A to point B.  Put the farms right above the kitchens which are right above the food supply; it's so much faster then having them all on the same level.

Z levels are ze key.
I'd have to agree with him. That is one of the reasons for one of my more successful forts.

Mine was setup:
Trade Depot
Trade Stock and Furniture Storage
Workshop
Materials (which eventually half of it ended up being a bone pit)

Strant

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 11:12:05 pm »

I use a modular design of my own invention.

It's based around a 19*19 'district' surrounded by 3-wide hallways.  The 'district' is further divided into 4 8*8 'chambers'.  This allows me  to place up to 4 3*3 workshops and their surrounding raw material stockpile in each chamber, though I haven't actually done that yet.

I also put industries that will help each other close together.  The butchershop, tanner, and leatherworks are all in the same chamber.  In the chamber south of them is the bowyer's and bonecarver's workshops.  Directly to the east will be an indoor fishing area.  The last chamber is for finished goods storage.  Conveniently north of all that is the dining room.  And above that is the cooking and food storage districts.

Alas, I do not use Z levels to their full potential but I do pretty well for myself anyway.

Here's a picture of myexample.  I have labeled it awfully using paint.  If anyone needs me I'll be off getting a decent image editing software.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Dorf3000

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2009, 03:12:00 am »


Usually my levels go as such:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What are other people's building methods? How do you make a clean and efficient fortress?

One thing I can say is that dwarves drink from the barrel, wherever it is stored.  Having all your booze up on X-1 means they will all troop up there twice a season.  The same goes for eating, but worse because they will go to X-1 and then back down to the dining room (or worse, their personal dining room) to eat.  It may be more efficient to have the booze pile on the workshop level, and prepared food on the dining level.  Depending on how radical you want to be, maybe move the dining up underneath the farms.

Also I recommend at least a couple of peasants as dedicated food haulers.  They won't go off to the mining levels to haul one ore and leave the kitchen/still cluttered.

In my current fort I have export good storage on the top level, food production to the side of that (small farm + legendary grower makes enough for everybody), regular workshops underneath, furniture/misc storage under that, and then the furnaces under those.  Bedrooms are to one side near to the farms/kitchens, with dining above them.  Once the masons/stonecrafters get to legendary I find it actually helps that they have to travel quite far to get stone, otherwise they produce so much stuff I can't haul it and build it fast enough.
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veerserif

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2009, 03:24:16 am »

I tend to use my top soil layer for everything related to farms. 1 big farm in the middle, surrounded by workshops processing the plants (breweries, kitchens, farmer's workshops etc) and a stockpile somewhere. My dining room is usually right below that, surrounded by bedrooms.

Everything else, I just sort of shove where there's room :P My finished good stockpile is usually right next to the depot, though (wherever that is). I'm still getting the hang of efficient layouts; I rationalize away by saying that it gives my dorfs exercise. Also it's a good opportunity to stick traps everywhere.
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Kulantan

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Re: What are the secrets of your fortress designs?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 09:06:00 am »

Plan
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Level use
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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