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Author Topic: Dwarves and Beards  (Read 4529 times)

Vester

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2009, 05:52:30 am »

Because they're not human females?
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DG

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2009, 07:13:57 am »

Because they're not human females?

Pilsu should be here soon.
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Vester

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2009, 07:54:43 am »

Heh.

But to put a more fine point on it, I believe that Dwarven women shouldn't have beards, but that we should be honest about why.

It's because we [and by "we" I mean many no-bearders] think they look better that way. We have no other real justification.

I don't have a beard, and I look better that way! :D
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"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Angellus

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2009, 08:46:48 am »

I don't have a beard, and I look better that way! :D
But you don't look tough!

(personally prefer myself beardless too, but dwarves are something else! :D)
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Areyar

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2009, 08:51:50 am »

If you don't like beards, play elf forrest, not dwarf fortress! :rage:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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yaklin

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2009, 03:50:14 pm »

If you don't like beards, play elf forest, not dwarf fortress! :rage:

actually there are some sad folks here who do play elf forest
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Jude

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2009, 03:58:32 pm »

Because this isn't real evolutionary biology and no peers are going to be evaluating my work, I'll feel free to propose the following just-so story about dwarven beards.

First thing you need to know is the dwarven mating system is rather unlike the human one. Dwarves are strictly monogamous and females mate only in the context of a long-term committed relationship, i.e. marriage. Why THIS is, you can invent all kinds of other stories about. The upshot of this is that while females do have the larger zygote and carry the baby, both sexes have about equal parental investment in the baby, since males stick around and contribute as much as they're able to the marriage and child. This leads to very little sexual dimorphism, which is why male and female dwarves are pretty much identical in behavior and physiology. Therefore what's good for the male dwarf is good for the female dwarf.

So, beards. The initial function of beards may have been protection from cold, neck protection, some combination of the two, or something additional. If it was for protection from cold, this adaption clearly came to be sometime before dwarves became subterranean, or at least while they spent a considerable amount of time in cold climates (such as mountain ranges). Anyway, once beards exist, they serve not only the functions they were selected for, but also work as an indicator of health, much like human hair. A long, luxurious beard is an unfakeable sign that a dwarf has good genes, and has had access to good nutrition for long enough to grow that lovely beard. This sets up a selection pressure where a big beard leads to increased mating possibilites with better partners, just like a peacock's tail.

Once this effect is in motion, not only is there pressure to mate with a big-bearded dwarf for their genes, but also because the fact that there is a preference for big beards means your kids are better off in the mating game if THEY have big beards. It feeds off itself. For more on this topic, see (for example) The Red Queen, by Matt Ridley. At some point, the original genetic-showoff function of the beard may be equalled or eclipsed by the fashion-following function. Again, Ridley explains it a lot better than I can.

Anyway, that's why dwarves have beards, both male and female. Also, the idea of tiny dwarven babies being born with beards makes me warm and fuzzy inside, so I insist that they do in fact sprout beards in utero.
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I once started with a dwarf that was "belarded by great hanging sacks of fat."

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Sensei

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2009, 04:03:11 pm »

Also, the idea of tiny dwarven babies being born with beards makes me warm and fuzzy inside...
The pun! It burns!
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Jude

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2009, 04:13:26 pm »

 :D Actually it was completely unintended.
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Quote from: Raphite1
I once started with a dwarf that was "belarded by great hanging sacks of fat."

Oh Jesus

Angellus

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2009, 04:30:01 pm »

If you don't like beards, play elf forest, not dwarf fortress! :rage:

actually there are some sad folks here who do play elf forest
Elves! YAY!
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Areyar

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2009, 05:21:40 pm »

Also, the idea of tiny dwarven babies being born with beards makes me warm and fuzzy inside...
They are called whiskers. (:3>     [dwarf]
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Mylar

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2009, 02:44:13 pm »

Even after they moved underground and developed their well know bent towards stone and metal crafts there would still be darwinian pressure to maintain the beard.

Ask anyone who has ever worked at a forge, or anyone who has ever used a jackhammer. Shards HURT. Hell, they can kill ya.

You shatter anything metal that you are tempering or hit a small impurity fracture or plate while mining and you have some very sharp bits of rock/metal flying at you. Catch one in the throat and you are bleeding out.

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betamax

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2009, 03:26:19 pm »

Wouldn't beards be massive fire hazards, though?

That could be a reason why working dwarves tend to keep their beards fairly short, along with them getting trapped in things. Floor-sweeping beards could be a sign of nobility.
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tombthedwarf

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2009, 03:30:37 pm »

So, It cam pretty much be assumed that the dwarfs emerged from the colder climes much like their Norse spiritual sires, for insulation (though desert living is possible for the same reason), which can also be attested to by a dwarfs thick frame (which doesn't bode so well for the desert dwelling theory). The Beard as a defense is also likely(considering how many just hate dwarfs), of course the beard (once evolved) would become a status symbol amounts the dwarf as it did for many human civilizations, goats (hopefully without the urine), and lions (though the latter are less likely to found civilizations), and while a beard is useful for mining, smiting and such; they probably had little to do with the dwarfs bearded society.

Also it is likely that dwarfs can instantly change the color of their beard, form patterns, and and use it as a light source (how do you think those dwarfish miners see) light (as seen in game) to please their multi-planar gods!!!!! muwa! ha! ha!

So that would make dwarfs, Norse, warlike, human, lions (actually that's about right).
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Rijjka

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Re: Dwarves and Beards
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2009, 04:02:57 pm »

Your all missing a very important key factor about beards. They can be used to put a baby into! How else  do you think a raging dwarven mother would carry a baby into battle while also wielding a warhammer and shield? She put the kid in her beard.

It's equally effective when Dad has to watch the baby.
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