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Author Topic: The EU super state...  (Read 10201 times)

Nilocy

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The EU super state...
« on: October 04, 2009, 04:15:17 pm »

... is on its way people. Fear us and our new super land of awesome. With Tony Blair quite possibly at the helm of it... FEAR US!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6901353.stm

Well, at least when the Czech and the Polish sign up.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 04:16:04 pm »

Well, at least with Tony at the head it will be corrupt and shiftless.
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Kagus

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 04:19:11 pm »

So, there'll be this huge blob of "EU", with Norway tacked on to the one side of it.

That would just look hilarious.  Almost as funny as the Euro.

umiman

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 04:20:19 pm »

It's about time. Most everyone I know considers Europe to be one country anyway (sorry, you poor, proud, ex-countries), and we do need competition in terms of global superpowers. I may be Chinese, but the idea of a world seperated between the China-bloque and the USA-powers scares me deeply. At least with a European middle-ground, there should be some leeway for international agendas.

TheNewerMartianEmperor

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 04:31:45 pm »

A hundred years in the future, the world will be completely covered by these 3 superpowers! Except the islands, and Australia.
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alway

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 04:33:19 pm »

Well, 3 is the most diplomatically unstable number... So then we can have lots of backstabby fun!  ;D
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Leafsnail

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 04:34:12 pm »

Wait, so which block does, say, Russia go into?
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Nilocy

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2009, 04:37:27 pm »

Wait, so which block does, say, Russia go into?

Population wise, i'd say the EU, land wise china.

Since most of the russians live on our side of the Urals I believe.

Edit: I just remembered, you know that crazy leader of Libya, Cnl. Gaddafi or something, he's acctually asking for an African style Nato to be formed... so, that could be the 4th contender.

Then theres also indian... Argh so many big countries.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 04:41:13 pm by Nilocy »
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2009, 04:51:29 pm »

Americas, Africa, Europe, India, China.  Those will be the main contenders in the future I think. 

I don't know where Oceania, Australia, Russia, and the middle east in general is going to fit, but it should be interesting. yes indeedy it should be lls lol
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Leafsnail

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2009, 04:57:40 pm »

Well, the Middle East and Russia are the big oil countries, so will remain pretty important for the foreseeable future, especially come Peak Oil.
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umiman

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2009, 05:13:50 pm »

It's highly unlikely that we'll ever see an African superpower or actual conglomeration of nations anytime within our lifetimes, I think. At least, not one that includes the whole African continent.

Russia seems to have been tossed out of the loop completely. Judging by the country's past actions, it's like they're trying to remind the rest of the world that they still exist. No offense to the Russians here, but that's how it seems to be. Maybe they have some sort of secret ability but seeing how they're so afraid to share any sort of real economic or military data about themselves... yeah.

Puzzlemaker

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2009, 05:41:18 pm »

I forgot about oil.  They will probably end up being fought over, either politically, economically, or militaristically.

I agree that we probably wont see an united Africa, but we probably will see sections of it band together more, like the south African region, or the northern region (Egypt, Morocco, etc).

Russia is interesting, I agree.  I don't know what's going to happen with them, but I suspect they will be left in the dust.
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Strife26

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 09:06:52 pm »

When the world goes to hell again, I've always predicted that the natural allies will stay true. I expect the countries of primarily English origin (America, Britan, Canada, and Australia primarily) to be the main block (and really, that's just about enough stuff to take on the entire world, assuming some other power was on there side (like Russia! Wouldn't that be a funny conflict). I could see the blocks being like this:

Allies: America, Britain, Australia, Canada. Various other small islands. Taiwan and South Korea as well. Easily the strongest power in conventional war.

Europe: Self explanatory (sans Switzerland and Lichtenstein).

Russia: Bit of a wild card. Could possibly be with Europe (making Europe the second major power). If they go by themselves (and possibly take a bit of Eastern Europe), they'd have a fair bit of power (especially if they took on 3rd world countries, they have enough material to do a lot, depending on mobilization).

China: Probably includes a fair bit of SE Asia. Possible cooperation with Russia. Opposed by the Allies and India.

India: Might be with the Allies, but I doubt this. If I had to guess, they'd be the epicenter of the conflict, possibly exchanging nukes with Pakistan over Kashmir.

Muslims: Interesting question. I don't remember which countries are Shi'ite and which are Sunni right now, but there'd be some chance of two powers on sectarian lines, or a smaller one of a pan-Arabic alliance. Relatively minor, although oil may be a factor. Expect Paki-Indian war and some tussles with Israel.

Israel: Probably going to have Allied support. Could start conflict via an attack on Iran (like they did against Iraq some time ago). Possible nuke use if attacked?

South America: I could see South and Central America getting together. They'd have a surprising bit of power (provided Venezuela doesn't throw a wrench into things. Venezuela or drugs are another possible spark, btw). I'd expect them to be with the Allies to some extent.

Africa: ATO (African Treaty organization) is a very real possibility from my standpoint. Expect it to be mostly symbolic in any case though. Africa has enough trouble keeping itself together on the state level, much less the country or continent one. Possible draw of other troops in Somalia.



At this moment, there are about half a dozen spots where trouble could start up. However, there isn't any spot for WWIII to start yet. As long as NATO remains strong, any major wars will be one sided, or very very bad (read nukes). However, if we go a few years in the future (call it 6? About when I hope to have a Tank Company), the situation can change. I foresee NATO dieing sometime, and Europe breaking away from US. China will continue to expand, as will Russia to a lesser extent. To my eternal chagrin, draw down will probably happen in the US. Fucking idiots.

Then, we just need a spark.

1) Taiwan. China invades the ROC. America comes to Taiwan's defense. Probably leads to a slaughtering of China, I'd expect Europe and Russia to come against the commies. If China was to have Russia on their side, and Europe were to stay mostly out of the fight, it'd get awkward. Especially because both sides of a hot war would have strategic nukes.

2) Korea. Same thing. North Korea invades and gets backed by China.

3) Kashmir. Pakistan and India come to blows. Possibly with nukes. The blocks go to one side or another.

Honestly, as far as I can tell, this is the only way we're going to get wars. However, there are a couple of other spots where I wouldn't be surprised if little wars fired up (of course, getting shot in a little war isn't that different from getting shot in a big one). Note that if the big one breaks out while these are occurring, a fair bit of the world's military (especially America) might be tied up

1) Israel. Repeat of the last one. Muslim vs Jew. If Israel looks like they're going down, expect US involvement.

2) Somalia. I could see another 'UN' mission there, with possible repeats of the Battle of Mogadishu. Could VERY easily result in the country getting blown to bits (let me put it this way, if I had been in charge during 'black hawk down' there would've been a lot of damage to the city.

3) Iran. Invasion over nukes. US cesspit when it isn't handled correctly.

4) Bosnia. Nasty UN mission?

5) Rwanda. See above?

6) South America. Venezuela does something REALLY stupid and gets invaded.

7) North Korea. Invades the RoK, but isn't backed by China. They get their asses kicked. Probably end of county if their stupid enough to try a nuke.

8) Middle East. Civil War somewhere?

9) Africa. Civil War somewhere?

The problem right now is that NATO and the UN still tilt things strongly to the status que. The UN doesn't seem to give a rats ass about internal things (it's not genocide, just racial cleansing, okay?), but they'd still get pissy if a country was actually invaded.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2009, 09:31:35 pm »

Face it people, there is not going to be any IIIWW, because, you know, the major powers have got them nukes, and history has shown that not even a crazy-ass state like USSR would willingly commit suicide.

As for the main topic, what's curious is that it's not a question if we(speaking for Poles) and Czechs will ratify the EU's constitution as much as it's when it will finally happen. Irish example shows clearly that EU doesn't take a "no" for an aswer.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: The EU super state...
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2009, 09:49:50 pm »

Actually, the problem isn't that the major superpowers are getting nukes.  It's that the minor ones are.  Technological levels are getting to the point where it could be possible to create nuclear materials in third world countries without outside support or with very limited outside support.  Strifes list had a few examples of where that could happen.

In my mind, that's the only way WW3 would get started; some minor countries get ahold of nukes, start using them, and are invaded.  Things spiral from there.

Also, about the EU... I think it's a good thing actually.  The world needs to get more organized so the above doesn't happen.  Small angry countries getting big weapons = very, very bad.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 09:59:00 pm by Puzzlemaker »
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