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[Mr.Person]

As promised, unvote. Vector, I want to hear more about why exactly you think Apostolic Nihilist is scum. I'm not liking how you're implying that Apostolic Nihilist is the only lynch. He hasn't dug his own grave yet, why are you saying he has?

[Org]

Game of Assassins on my dorm floor and class in half an hour. Can't refute now.

What is assassins?.!

Dakarian, for acting weird and a bit strange, as well as going crazy over colors, which means 3 things,
a)Townie, wants to survive
b)Scum, wants to survive
c)Power role, a or b

[Apostolic Nihilist]

I'm not going to fault anyone for it, of course — even if we do have a minuscule chance of actually voting and lynching mafia on Day 1, I suppose the practice itself isn't bad, right?
Actually, I can't easily recall many games that have had a mafia lynch D1. I'd say 90% of the time (at least) it's been a townie who dies.
That's why I don't like lynching for D1 mistakes; pushing & prodding, trying to draw out more mistakes, sure; but lynching? It's a bit much. At least wait until we have evidence to go off of, I say.

Unvote.  Org, let's see some scum-hunting PDQ.  It's the "not playing the damned game" more than anything else.

You have indeed dug your own grave.  Scum have different behavior when someone is being lynched than they do when we are just "scumhunting."  The lynch is almost necessary, especially if we are not going off of night actions.  We can't say if this is a "power role game" or not.  As such, we must go off behavior--and yours is suspicious.

You are not acting anything like your usual self.  I saw you in BM3, and you're being far more passive and submissive.  You seem like an ideal D1 lynch to get things cranking.

Sorry, Apostolic Nihilist.

Er, perhaps I'm interpreting incorrectly, but are you suggesting that you lynch me 'to move things along'?

That really doesn't seem like a good idea simply because that's one less townie we'll have before we reach lylo.
I'm sure you realize this: Town loses when all townies are dead. Mafia can kill one person per night, we can lynch one person per day. With nine people, if we lynch a person every day, we'll hit lylo in 3 days. If we only lynch someone every other day, we've already extended our time limit to 5 days; that's quite a significant increase and gives scum more time to mess up.

Rushing into things headfirst is something we should avoid doing.

[dakarian]

There's actually a reason I pulled from Nihilist: I believe he's not being helpful at all, but I don't believe it's scummy anymore.

The hard part is to tell the difference between someone who's anti-town, someone with a different mentality, and someone that's scummy.  That's NOT the same thing.

Yes, many of us agree that keeping back Day 1 and relying on power roles isn't too good for us.  The question isn't whether it is or isn't good.  The question is what is Nihilist's intentions with stating those ideas. 

If you do believe he's just not playing well, or is simply wrong in his ideas, then you're assuming he really believes what he writes.  That means he's being honest, which is actually a town-tell.

YES, honestly saying that you believe in bad play is a TOWN-TELL.

In order to declare Nihilst scum for his statement, you need to prove that what he's saying isn't really what he believes.. that he's simply trying to confuse or misdirect the town.  It could be either to get us to use poor strategy or it could be to hide his scumtells as bad plays.  Either way, that's scummy behavior.

Personally, I want to see more of him, but I can't declare that he's lying about his statements.  I need to see more of him beforehand.  As such, my vote is off of him. 

To the rest of you, I suggest that if you believe Nihilist is lying about his ideas then accuse him for it.  If you believe he's just playing very very badly, then you may be lynching an Unhelpful Townie, and contrary to popular belief, that does NOT help the town.

Remember, we're not after folks who's mentalities we don't like.  We are after people who are trying to kill us. 


Sidenote, @Org  The answer is D) A person that doesn't like Bastard Games biting the town in the "OMG" and willing to sacrifice myself to avoid it.

[Org]

You aren't really sacrificing yourself...

[Apostolic Nihilist]

I'll just have to hope that Dakarian's aid is out of altruism and not an ulterior motive.

He's quite accurate though.
I'm of the opinion that lynching people on D1 without solid evidence is not good for the town. It only expedites our demise.

This entire practice is quite annoying, it wouldn't be such a big deal if we had a larger number of players, but we only have 9. We don't have much time in the first place.

Mafia isn't a sprint, it's more like marathon. Rushing around in the beginning will only end in defeat.

[webadict]

Vote Count (5 to Lynch)
Apostolic Nihilist - NUKE9.13, Vector
ExKirby - Pandarsenic, dakarian
dakarian - ExKirby, Org
Pandarsenic - Apostolic Nihilist
Vector - Mr.Person

[Vector]

The hard part is to tell the difference between someone who's anti-town, someone with a different mentality, and someone that's scummy.  That's NOT the same thing.

[...]

Remember, we're not after folks who's mentalities we don't like.  We are after people who are trying to kill us.

Point taken.

He's quite accurate though.
I'm of the opinion that lynching people on D1 without solid evidence is not good for the town. It only expedites our demise.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  The point is to generate solid evidence for D2.  It is, of course, stupid to lynch someone you don't suspect, or who you aren't really sure about at all... but it's also stupid to let scum use their NKs and let the days go by without getting any good work in.

As promised, unvote. Vector, I want to hear more about why exactly you think Apostolic Nihilist is scum. I'm not liking how you're implying that Apostolic Nihilist is the only lynch. He hasn't dug his own grave yet, why are you saying he has?

Simply put, I feel like he's acting really different than what I've seen of him otherwise.  His overall flavor has changed, and I don't trust such a sudden change in behavior.  I'm not saying he's the only lynch; I'm saying that, at the moment, he seems like the optimal lynch.

Sure, maybe we want to spend all our time dicking around in the stage that comes right after random-voting, where everyone is still voting someone different and no one knows what to do.  My hope is that if I start pressing for a lynch, I'll be able to monitor others' behavior and make more sense of it.

[dakarian]

@Org

I will if I have to. 

@ all

Still waiting on Nuke to reply with something other than:

1. Someone else's argument quoted up
2. Another "You are scum" post
3. A barrel full of WIFOM

[ExKirby]

OK... one night and votes get flung around like crazy. Can we vote No Lynch in this game?

[Leafsnail]

Unvote.

OK... one night and votes get flung around like crazy. Can we vote No Lynch in this game?

What, so you can protect your scummy self, Exkirby?  After all, a NL means the mafia can't be hit, right?

[webadict]

OK... one night and votes get flung around like crazy. Can we vote No Lynch in this game?

Yes.

[dakarian]

With 9 people, traditionally there are 2 mafia (since 3 means one mislynch puts us in Lylo)

So with 9 people and 2 mafia, we get 3 mislynches before it's game over and 1 additional lynch if we hit a mafia. 

However, if we nolynch, we officially lose a mislynch and, thus, end up with 2 mislynches before game over, with 1 additional if we catch a mafia


So, if we no lynch now, we lose one of our lynches later.


No lynch has possibilities near the end game, especially if you end up with even numbers (BM3 demonstrated that, although it was mafia that suggested it).  For odd numbers like this and in the beginning game, we need those lynches. 

The only other condition I can think of is if we just no lynch over and over.  That'll drag the game out to 5 days then put us to Lylo.  It gives power roles 4 nights to discover something, 2 additional than traditional methods. 

That's insanely risky, however.  We don't know the power roles that are out there.  We don't know what we'll get on the 5th day.  Also, with the mass of nolynches, we'll have no discussion, no communication, and, thus, no tools to work with.  Even the mafia kills won't be useful since there's no day game to link player behavior with kills. 

As such, I say no to No Lynch.  We're not playing around pointing fingers at each other randomly here.  What goes on now creates the wonderful analysis and discussion you love in later days.  To get that, though, we need this day.  Giving it up is giving everything to raw chance and risk. 

[webadict]

Vote Count (5 to Lynch)
Apostolic Nihilist - NUKE9.13, Vector
ExKirby - Pandarsenic, dakarian, Leafsnail
dakarian - ExKirby, Org
Pandarsenic - Apostolic Nihilist
Vector - Mr.Person

[ExKirby]

Unvote.

OK... one night and votes get flung around like crazy. Can we vote No Lynch in this game?

What, so you can protect your scummy self, Exkirby?  After all, a NL means the mafia can't be hit, right?

Woah. Sorry, I just thought things were getting out of hand.