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[Blackcat]

Just noticed that when you are digging underground, the material above an empty space isn't revealed. Surely if you dig out a tile, you can see what's directly above that tile?

[mickel]

I think it's because the abstract floor level between every z layer. What you're seeing isn't the bottom of whatever is in the z layer above you, but the bottom of the floor layer above you.

[Silveron]

What blackcat is saying makes sense to me though. That miraculously thin yet strong floor layer is part of the tile above. You should be able to tell what the material is above you, but not necessarilly see if the tile is mined out. Im not sure if its practical to make that distinction possible though.

For myself, I just presume that theres also a tiny slice of ceiling at the top of the tile stuck to the upper floor.

[kirunobliv]

I always thought that the reason for this was because of something like:

# walls
O mined tunnel

###
#O#
###

Since everyting is ASCII, the tiles looks square, or should be cubish, but the strongest and smartest way to tunnel is a circle, leaving a bit of the material you just mined all the way around you... thus you can tell what is directly above you, just some left over crust of what you just mined, and not was is on the next floor above you.

*shrug*

[Aquillion]

I think kirunobliv has it correct.  Note that you can see what is directly above you -- by building a staircase up or something similar, which removes the bits of remaining stone overhead.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Yes, it's just the same as when you can't see what's in the layer below until you build a down staircase.

[Zulaf]

A bit off topic but....maybe this could be a perfect time to add a geologist type skill for guessing whats above and bellow the tunnel and a tile after the surrounding ones? Atleast it could be a similar rock as to whats really there.

If i read right some stones dont appear next to some others and others only appear next to certain ones. that could play a big part in the evaluation of the stone.

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>I think it's because the abstract floor level between every z layer. What you're seeing isn't the bottom of whatever is in the z layer above you, but the bottom of the floor layer above you.</STRONG>

However, for non-constructed floors at least, the floor tile in a freshly-generated element is always the same material as the wall tile. So you could quite easily infer that what is above you is either a) unmined or mined rock of the same material as the floor you see above you, or b) if you see a constructed floor, you infer that there is a constructed floor of that material above you, and either empty space or a constructed wall of unknown material.

[Sean Mirrsen]

If it is a skill, it would be activated in the same manner as mining is. You designate a prospecting area (a spot or line, more likely), and a prospector dwarf comes along with a small hammer and tries to guess what lies beyond the rock by listening to echo. For the most part, only the speed of the action would be influenced by the skill, and the distance the stone is revealed would only increase on levels like Professional - 3 tiles, Legendary - 4 tiles. The revealing happens simultaneously in all directions of adjacent stone, but only 2 z-levels difference may ever be uncovered, at Legendary.

[Zulaf]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>If it is a skill, it would be activated in the same manner as mining is. You designate a prospecting area (a spot or line, more likely), and a prospector dwarf comes along with a small hammer and tries to guess what lies beyond the rock by listening to echo. For the most part, only the speed of the action would be influenced by the skill, and the distance the stone is revealed would only increase on levels like Professional - 3 tiles, Legendary - 4 tiles. The revealing happens simultaneously in all directions of adjacent stone, but only 2 z-levels difference may ever be uncovered, at Legendary.</STRONG>

This sounds like a reasonable way to handle this skill.

[kirunobliv]

Definatley cometely implausable. An ordinary ear (assuming dwarves have ordinary ears, though im sure someone will say dwarves have extra ordinary hearing in underground environments, thus i would commence to slap them and point to a DnD player's forum) would not be able to tell by the reverbirations what type of rock is in that direction. Maybe perhaps density, and if there really was water over there, but definatley not the exact type of rock. Also make finding adamantium much less of an OMFGWTFBBQDEMONSKILLME moment...

Regardless of my whining, it would sound useful and reduce rock clutter if you mined straight to what you wanted.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Rock clutter must be reduced by other means, like wheelbarrows and multihauling.

Prospecting is a skill for searching for something without mining out hollows in the mountain - something you can do now, but will not be able to do with caveins in place.

And these dwarves are by far not D&D dwarves - if anything, they're Tolkien's dwarves, and those had some keen senses in regards to darkness and rock. Their hearing and sight was less than that of human Rangers, but they could navigate and appraise surrounding stone with ease that baffles most races. At least, that's what I believe.

And demons will always be a surprise to you, if hitting adamantine doesn't ring a bell.  

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by kirunobliv:
<STRONG>Definitely completely implausible. An ordinary ear (assuming dwarves have ordinary ears, though im sure someone will say dwarves have extra ordinary hearing in underground environments, thus i would commence to slap them and point to a D&D player's forum) would not be able to tell by the reverberations what type of rock is in that direction. Maybe perhaps density, and if there really was water over there, but definitely not the exact type of rock.</STRONG>

Who says dwarves are limited to mundane means?

[Tahin]

And who said these are DnD dwarves, anyway?

EDIT: I appear to have missed Sean's comment.

[ December 07, 2007: Message edited by: Tahin ]

[Quintin Stone]

The dwarves are too short!  They're too far away from the ceiling to tell what kind of stone is up there.  Unless you build a staircase.