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[forsaken1111]

No reason and no evidence? How about your freakish D1 behavior? Is that an acceptable reason?

So I'm condemned for using a different method of scum hunting?

[NUKE9.13]

Hmmm!

defending IS a scumtell shoot in three of the b12f games i have played i have gotten lynch for being defensive. Agressiveness is a towntell.

You sir, are so wrong it is coming out the other side! Which makes no sense!
Defending yourself against accusations is not a scumtell. Every one can and should defend themselves when under attack, as forsaken is. Indeed, not defending yourself is a scumtell, and a major one at that!
Allow me to explain why you might get lynched for your defending of yourself.
There are multiple kinds of defence: Rational defence. Based on logic and reason. As long as the logic is sound this is unbeatable.
Evidence-defence. Based on evidence you cannot be scum or must be town. Investigations, claims, and, say, PMs talking about conspiracies count as this. This defence is valid, and when paired with rational defence can almost assure your townhood. Thing is, they can be lies.
Contentless defence. Just saying you aren't scum and that lyching you is a bad idea is better than nothing, but unlikely to shift more than a random vote.
Emotional defence. Defences like 'go on then lynch me (you meanies)' fall under this and are highly suspicious. This is going to get you into more trouble than it saves. Always. 'Desperate' defences fall under this. There is no rush. Take your time. If neccessary ask for a day extension so that you can post your defence.

No reason and no evidence? How about your freakish D1 behavior? Is that an acceptable reason?

So I'm condemned for using a different method of scum hunting?

Forsaken, if you are indeed town (which I am now willing to accept), your 'different method' was a stupid way off scum hunting. You may not have heard, but town does not lie to town, and pretending to be scum counts as lying. I can tell you that you found no scum as I am the only person-I think-that came up as scummy on the 'attack' side. What you did do is get a bunch of stupid townies (eg. muchenik) to come to your defence in ways that are scummier still. I do not recommend you or anyone else ever use this 'method' of scumhunting ever again.

NUKE9.13

I implore you to consider my actions again. You claim to have read my posts, yet you still came out with recycled attacks at me that were not based off that wall of text but rather off -barely relevant remarks-, including an argument I had already withdrawn. Please reread the thread from the start of the incident and think, did I ever do anything really scummy? If you truly think I did, do tell what, and I will explain why I did it, because I can, because I am not scum. My rage has subsided over the night and I will endeavour to make my arguments clear, with a minimum of insultry.

[Humaan]

Everone but RedWarrior0 has claimed.

Only 2 people have claimed vanilla town, which I am suprised by.

[Leafsnail]

Hmm, Stun Bomb night one is a bit strange.  It means that we a) know of the Watcher's existence and b) know he has no tech slots left.  I suppose he may have just been trying to stop a couple of NKs and possibly to stop some investigative roles from blasting the scum straight of the water.

Pandar, I'm not sure if I see your logic behind attacking Forsaken.  I do find him scummy, but why is the mere fact that the Watcher shows up as Survive to a telepath mean that he is automatically scum?  And anyway, other investigative roles (Detective or maybe even Agent, since he can't claim Survivor) will rumble him.

And Diakron, why are you attacking Forsaken with so little to go on?  It seems like a random bandwagon.  Care to explain your motives?

And finally, there are some others who are active lurking.  If I were to single out someone who I think is acting strangely, I'd say ToonyMan.  He seems to be acting in a rather reserved fashion, very unusual for him.

[forsaken1111]

Forsaken, if you are indeed town (which I am now willing to accept), your 'different method' was a stupid way off scum hunting. You may not have heard, but town does not lie to town, and pretending to be scum counts as lying. I can tell you that you found no scum as I am the only person-I think-that came up as scummy on the 'attack' side. What you did do is get a bunch of stupid townies (eg. muchenik) to come to your defence in ways that are scummier still. I do not recommend you or anyone else ever use this 'method' of scumhunting ever again.

I didn't 'pretend to be scum' I pretended defeatism and uncooperation. I didn't lie to anyone, I refused to answer some questions. I'm sorry that you didn't like the method, but I think it served its purpose. It got people interacting beyond the basic "I FoS you and you respond" or "I random vote you and you whine about it" level and revealed a lot of behavior which, I think, will be quite telling later as some investigations are done.

For now we should thank the watcher, I believe. He's given us another chance to lynch some scum and prevented anyone from night killing us.

Now... I agree that Diakron is acting suspicious, and likely trying to lead a bandwagon. This is a classic tactic for scum, trying to establish a target and tunnelvision the town so that we focus on the wrong player.

[webadict]

Forsaken, if you are indeed town (which I am now willing to accept), your 'different method' was a stupid way off scum hunting. You may not have heard, but town does not lie to town, and pretending to be scum counts as lying. I can tell you that you found no scum as I am the only person-I think-that came up as scummy on the 'attack' side. What you did do is get a bunch of stupid townies (eg. muchenik) to come to your defence in ways that are scummier still. I do not recommend you or anyone else ever use this 'method' of scumhunting ever again.

I didn't 'pretend to be scum' I pretended defeatism and uncooperation. I didn't lie to anyone, I refused to answer some questions. I'm sorry that you didn't like the method, but I think it served its purpose. It got people interacting beyond the basic "I FoS you and you respond" or "I random vote you and you whine about it" level and revealed a lot of behavior which, I think, will be quite telling later as some investigations are done.

For now we should thank the watcher, I believe. He's given us another chance to lynch some scum and prevented anyone from night killing us.

Now... I agree that Diakron is acting suspicious, and likely trying to lead a bandwagon. This is a classic tactic for scum, trying to establish a target and tunnelvision the town so that we focus on the wrong player.

Your defeatism wasn't helpful though. It made you look exactly like scum. Don't do it again, because I'm pretty sure you found no one. It was a poor form of scumhunting (It was unproven, and now that it's been used, it's debunked as well.)

No reason and no evidence? How about your freakish D1 behavior? Is that an acceptable reason?

Pandarsenic, did you just answer Diakron's questions for him?

I was asking what made Diakron less suspicious than forsaken. He basically didn't do anything town would do. At all. But if you want to defend him, go ahead. I'm not truly understanding that.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Diakron: Mr.Person, forsaken1111, webadict
NUKE9.13: Jim Groovester
forsaken1111: Diakron, Pandarsenic


Reminder: Day 2 goes until ~10am Pacific Friday

[Kashyyk]

I'm going to be offline from tomorrow to Sunday, just to let you know. Meph you can sub me if you want but I don't think you will need it.

[forsaken1111]

I'm going to be offline from tomorrow to Sunday, just to let you know. Meph you can sub me if you want but I don't think you will need it.

Ouch, you'll be missing all of this day and likely most of the next.

[forsaken1111]

Your defeatism wasn't helpful though. It made you look exactly like scum. Don't do it again, because I'm pretty sure you found no one. It was a poor form of scumhunting (It was unproven, and now that it's been used, it's debunked as well.)

You cannot 'debunk' something with only a single trial. So it didn't work as well as I'd hoped this time... did your own methods work any better? No. None of you managed to expose any more scum than I did, so get off my case. It was an experiment, I executed it, the results were inconclusive. I did no harm to anyone other than the lingering suspicion I brought upon myself, which I accept and will defend against accordingly.

You don't get to tell people how to play the game, web.

[ToonyMan]

forsaken1111 is still scum.

[Mr.Person]

Hmm, Stun Bomb night one is a bit strange.  It means that we a) know of the Watcher's existence and b) know he has no tech slots left.  I suppose he may have just been trying to stop a couple of NKs and possibly to stop some investigative roles from blasting the scum straight of the water.

Pandar, I'm not sure if I see your logic behind attacking Forsaken.  I do find him scummy, but why is the mere fact that the Watcher shows up as Survive to a telepath mean that he is automatically scum?  And anyway, other investigative roles (Detective or maybe even Agent, since he can't claim Survivor) will rumble him.

And Diakron, why are you attacking Forsaken with so little to go on?  It seems like a random bandwagon.  Care to explain your motives?

And finally, there are some others who are active lurking.  If I were to single out someone who I think is acting strangely, I'd say ToonyMan.  He seems to be acting in a rather reserved fashion, very unusual for him.

So, Leafsnail, you think that attacking people is scummy?

[Leafsnail]

No.  I'm asking Pandar for clarification since he seems to be using "Watcher returns survive from telepath" as an argument against Forsaken, and I don't see his logic.  I'm wondering why Diakron just bandwagonned onto Forsaken without any real reason, and I was trying to encourage some other people out of the shadows.  I chose ToonyMan since he was most notable by his absence (ie the fact he wasn't being his usual aggressive self, although he seems to have attacked Forsaken again since).

[RedWarrior0]

Sorry I haven't claimed yet. My parents banned me from computer outside of schoolwork earlier. Claiming soon

[Pandarsenic]

Pandarsenic, did you just answer Diakron's questions for him?

I was asking what made Diakron less suspicious than forsaken. He basically didn't do anything town would do. At all. But if you want to defend him, go ahead. I'm not truly understanding that.

Whewps. Read too quickly, thought it was for me.

No.  I'm asking Pandar for clarification since he seems to be using "Watcher returns survive from telepath" as an argument against Forsaken, and I don't see his logic.  I'm wondering why Diakron just bandwagonned onto Forsaken without any real reason, and I was trying to encourage some other people out of the shadows.  I chose ToonyMan since he was most notable by his absence (ie the fact he wasn't being his usual aggressive self, although he seems to have attacked Forsaken again since).

On one hand, if he is, in fact, a Watcher, he can make a big stink then claim Goth - he won't get scanned by any Agents and Telepaths will produce Survive, which a Goth and an Alien Watcher both share.
On the other hand, unvote because unless he's actually scum, he just used his only real tool now since he has to actually scumhunt (every few days?) if he wants to maintain a good balance of TvS.