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[Vector]

All right, jerk.  You asked for it.

Recap of last night and early N2 actions:

Vector breaks his rare silence to manipulate ExKirby (town) into attacking Org (probably also town). It is worth mentioning that this is the exact same mistake which gave him away in Beginner's Mafia 1.

No.  The BM1 mistake was that I jumped, not that I manipulated the town into attacking Org.  That was largely Webadict, remember?

All right, jerk.  You asked for it.

Dude.  ExKirby.  It was all tied up before you voted for yourself.  If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im.  This is not hard.

All right.  Let's say you've got someone who is clearly a beginner.  What do you do: do you tell the beginner the right move (that being, go kill whoever he is complaining about), or do you let him kill himself off?  I said I didn't particularly want to lynch Org.  I don't particularly want to lynch Org.  I want people to put their money where their mouths are.  If you said "After I die, kill Vector and Toonyman!!!" and you could kill me by moving over your vote, but didn't... well, I'd think you were being an idiot.  I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.

Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it.  ExKirby was town.  I honestly thought he was scum.  I was incorrect.  It's not a big deal, really.

...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.

1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.

You've played scum with me.  You know I don't do coordination.

ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1. Begin N2.

One more time: You voted me, not ToonyMan.  I'm the one who would be dead.  Not him.  This logic is fallacious.

Org tags ToonyMan and quickly unvotes. ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself.

I did not converge on you.  I asked three people some fairly half-assed questions.  I'm exhausted.  Sorry for not spewing WoT everywhere, but I am really, really tired.

Does "I have exams" mean nothing to you?  Such as, say, "Vector cancels playing Mafia; memorizing Analysis proofs"?

Is "I have exams" the best you can come up with? Your silence makes up less than 5% of my argument against you.

Oh, and it's that time of year. I have exams too.

"I have exams" explains why I'm exhausted and not attacking everything that moves, yes.  That would be most of your argument: I didn't attack ToonyMan.

Honestly, I feel like you're drawing at straws and coordinating with Pandarsenic.  You may or may not be.  I'm too tired to go hunt up the N1 data right now.

[Vector]

Fourth option:

Apoc was a kill you made so you could pretend the scum was framing you and clear yourself as town.

WIFOM, sure, but it's a choice you're not considering.

[Free Beer]

Let's take this piece by piece. I'll chop out the parts I don't think are relevant to keep the length short.

No.  The BM1 mistake was that I jumped, not that I manipulated the town into attacking Org.  That was largely Webadict, remember?

I was referring to this:

Ah, okay.  It looked to me like suspicion had turned away from ToonyMan for the moment as votes rotated towards you, but upon more careful consideration I suppose you're right.  If you would like to convince everyone else that ToonyMan needs to be lynched today, though, I'll put him back on the list.

I'll ask ToonyMan as well, then, and change the question a little.

To ToonyMan, Org, and eduren:
Out of the three people we seem to have up for serious lynch consideration, which should we pick?  Additionally, why do you think the other two (e.g. probably yourself and one other person) should be passed over for today?

You attempted to pit townies against each other. That's what gave you away and got webadict after you in the first place, which then later caused you to jump and get half the town on you. Remember now?

I said I didn't particularly want to lynch Org.  I don't particularly want to lynch Org.

Why, then, did you try to get him lynched by proxy via ExKirby? Your actions do not agree with your words.

I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.

Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it.  ExKirby was town.  I honestly thought he was scum.

Underlines are mine. They also contradict each other.

You've played scum with me.  You know I don't do coordination.

Your playing style is similar enough to your playing style in Beginner's 1, which was when I played scum with you. Namely, if you are scum then you are making the same kinds of mistakes and are employing the same general strategy.

One more time: You voted me, not ToonyMan.  I'm the one who would be dead.  Not him.  This logic is fallacious.

I stated I believed both of you to be scum. Even if I only got it half right, proper reaction would be to panic. A panicking scum's primary thought would be "Oh no, I'm gonna die!". My explanation is consistent with events. Oh, and you just defended ToonyMan here, not yourself.

I did not converge on you.  I asked three people some fairly half-assed questions.  I'm exhausted.  Sorry for not spewing WoT everywhere, but I am really, really tired.

You devoted a paragraph to Pandarsenic, whom you voted for. You devoted two sentences to ToonyMan, which actually contradicted an earlier statement when you said he wasn't suspicious to you (his behavior never changed from then to now). You devoted a paragraph to me, followed by the statement "you're next." After Pandarsenic asked you for more information about your accusation toward him, you stated you were more interested in the responses of ToonyMan and myself. My explanation for your behavior is quite likely, and it assumes you are scum.

Fourth option:

Apoc was a kill you made so you could pretend the scum was framing you and clear yourself as town.

WIFOM, sure, but it's a choice you're not considering.

I didn't even consider it, because I already know I'm town. And as I said, there were better kills than Apoc.

[Vector]

I said I didn't particularly want to lynch Org.  I don't particularly want to lynch Org.

Why, then, did you try to get him lynched by proxy via ExKirby? Your actions do not agree with your words.

I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.

Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it.  ExKirby was town.  I honestly thought he was scum.

Underlines are mine. They also contradict each other.

All right.  I am going to explain this just one more time, because I'm getting pissed off and tired.

It wasn't about Org.  It was about somebody playing stupidly, and trying to teach them to do things differently.  If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me.  That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).

I do not give a damn about lynching Org.  I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was.  That is all.  Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game."  Silly me.  I didn't think of that option.  I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive.  It sounds like a good thing to do.

[Pandarsenic]

Vector was totally right to explain ExKirby's Other Option. It may not have been in his best interest at the time, especially if ExKirby turned out to be scum, but it should have been made known to him.

Tired. I'm not going to post anything truly important when I'm tired because then I get incoherent nonsense.

[Org]

I would like to say that I honestly thought that Kirby was scum. He did switch his vote alot, although it might be because he isn't the best. THe other reason why was because I wanted to live. It was tied up if I remember right until someone else voted.

[Leafsnail]

Pandarsenic, you don't seem to have done much since day broke other than attack Org, leave him for no real reason (easy lynch later on?) and agreed with Vector.  So, who do you think is scum, then?  I mean, maybe you want to encourage Org to play properly, but if he's scum he's scum, right?

[Free Beer]

If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me.  That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).

You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.

I do not give a damn about lynching Org.  I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was.  That is all.  Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game."  Silly me.  I didn't think of that option.  I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive.  It sounds like a good thing to do.

Such things are supposed to go in a post-game analysis. In terms of this game, you tried to save someone who you thought was scum by telling him to attack someone you know to be town. Only scum would do that.

[Vector]

If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me.  That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).

You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.

... How pedantic must I be?

All right.  Situation: votes are tied between me and you.  You could move your vote over to me and kill me.  I know I am town.  I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.

I do not give a damn about lynching Org.  I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was.  That is all.  Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game."  Silly me.  I didn't think of that option.  I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive.  It sounds like a good thing to do.

Such things are supposed to go in a post-game analysis. In terms of this game, you tried to save someone who you thought was scum by telling him to attack someone you know to be town. Only scum would do that.

No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play.  ... Only scum would do that, huh?

[ToonyMan]

I am not scum with Vector!  You know how horrible it is to pair people together as scum?!  I think you are scum Free Beer.

@Vector:

Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy?  You're being quite subdued.

Sorry for not answering this sooner.  To be honest, I want to win this one personally.  I need to keep focus, but also not too much.  Org still hasn't done anything and Free Beer is using broken logic.

Just for note though, I am not saying both Org and Free Beer are scum partners.  I am saying that each one is scum individually.

[Free Beer]

To Vector:

... How pedantic must I be?

All right.  Situation: votes are tied between me and you.  You could move your vote over to me and kill me.  I know I am town.  I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.

Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.

No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play.  ... Only scum would do that, huh?

This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?

To ToonyMan:

I am not scum with Vector!  You know how horrible it is to pair people together as scum?!  I think you are scum Free Beer.

@Vector:

Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy?  You're being quite subdued.

Sorry for not answering this sooner.  To be honest, I want to win this one personally.  I need to keep focus, but also not too much.  Org still hasn't done anything and Free Beer is using broken logic.

Just for note though, I am not saying both Org and Free Beer are scum partners.  I am saying that each one is scum individually.

We've got an OMGUS, an excuse for delaying (again!), and completely ignoring any of the accusations I made against you earlier. I've posted dirt on you as well, you know. It's almost like you and Org traded bodies when nobody was looking.

[ToonyMan]

I see no accusations scum bucket.  Show them.

[Free Beer]

I see no accusations scum bucket.  Show them.

I don't know who you're addressing here, since you're talking to a "scum bucket" that only you seem to know about. But since you haven't addressed any of my accusations, I'll go ahead and post mine.

Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.

...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.

1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.

ToonyMan breaks his rare silence to defend ExKirby's attack on Org even as he FoS's ExKirby:

ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1.

ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:

Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.

Your only response to ANY of these is to switch your vote to me. It kind of reminds me of my response to you voting me back in Vote Mafia 3 (you know, back when I was scum). You aren't defending yourself, you're lurking, and you're being unhelpful. Typical Org play, which is very much atypical for you.

[ToonyMan]

Why are you voting Vector then?!

[Org]

Im going to vote Vector because of the following statements:

If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me.  That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).

I do not give a damn about lynching Org.  I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was.  That is all.  Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game."  Silly me.  I didn't think of that option.  I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive.  It sounds like a good thing to do.