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[Org]

Unvote. Sorry Toony. :I

>:I

[dakarian]

*waves Modkill stick*

YOU!

SAW!

NOTHING!

[Pandarsenic]

No. I am not scum. I want to play a bit better, and it seems everyone says its to scumhunt.

It seems I'm just not good at it.

Right now I'm stuck on dakarian(maybe) or even you pandar(although maybe you wouldn't be as helpful). :I

*Sigh*

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, for now. Unvote. I don't want to discourage you from starting to play Mafia for real.

I'll need some time to go over what we have, formulate theories, and make a new accusation. Until then....

I'll probably be playing TF2 honestly.

[dakarian]

@org

I'll step in a second.

Org, you're working with some baggage.  People know you for your past actions and, even I admit, the lurking has never helped you.

Being active and hunting is exactly what's needed.  Toony's response wasn't to say you were wrong.  He's applying pressure to you to see how genuine you are.  Genuine aggressiveness will be willing to push back even if under direct attack.  Even if the person says "You should just shut up and go home." If you hold on, you've proven yourself as aggressive.

If you want to look town, go find someone and ask more questions.  Make them answer and be ready for the counter attack.  Once you feel someone is scum, go after them like  a junkyard dog and consider any attempt to discredit you more proof you hit correctly.

Will that prove you are town?  Nope, since that's what you should do as mafia as well.  However, you won't be 'useless'.

[ToonyMan]

God save my soul for accusing someone for scumhunting, but Org, this behavior is totally uncharacteristic for you, and I think you're playing merely because you don't want to be lynched for lurking.

Fixed.

Also, Toony, what do you mean pairing you with him?

Previous games I mean.  You have a knack for starting infighting between town as scum.

[Pandarsenic]

I mean, what exactly is he doing? What is this "pairing you with him" action?

[ToonyMan]

I mean, what exactly is he doing? What is this "pairing you with him" action?

Here:

To Leafsnail: You make a few good points. And now I've got bigger fish to fry, so Unvote...

Dude.  ExKirby.  It was all tied up before you voted for yourself.  If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im.  This is not hard.

...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.

1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.

[Pandarsenic]

Ahh. Hmm.

So, uh. Is anyone else going to speak?

[Vector]

Waiting on answers to my questions.

[Pandarsenic]

Vector, reiterate them? (if they're for me at least)

[Vector]

Nope, not for you.  For ToonyMan and Free Beer.

[Free Beer]

Recap of last night and early N2 actions:

Vector breaks his rare silence to manipulate ExKirby (town) into attacking Org (probably also town). It is worth mentioning that this is the exact same mistake which gave him away in Beginner's Mafia 1:

Dude.  ExKirby.  It was all tied up before you voted for yourself.  If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im.  This is not hard.

ToonyMan breaks his rare silence to defend ExKirby's attack on Org even as he FoS's ExKirby:

i would of kept my mouth shut about voting myself in the first place so as not to look so scummy

FoS Toony you are not acting yourself and defending another player...

You can't go back in the past, it's too late now.  WHAT WOULD YOU DO?  You would vote Org, right?  I'm just saying this because your logic is flawed.  I still think ExKirby is scum mind you.

I call them out on it:

...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.

1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.

Apoc(Town), and Pandarsenic make non-comittal responses. Vector makes excuses but fails to present any decent points in his own defense. He also contradicts his earlier actions, defending Org despite his earlier attempt to get Org lynched:

Or, you know, ExKirby is being a moron and saying "DUR KILL ME THEN KILL ORG," to which I say "If you want Org dead, do the job yourself."

I don't think Org is scum.  I think ExKirby is acting funky, and I think he's the best person for the town to kill off for information at this point.  I also think that people should be forced to act and play the bloody game.  Risks must be taken.[...]

... In summary, let's kill ExKirby and watch Org for a while, because I don't really see why everyone thinks he's scum.

ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1. Begin N2.

Org tags ToonyMan and quickly unvotes. ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:

I vote Free Beer for pairing me with Vector.  Nothing is worse than pairing, Pandarsenic does it all the time as scum and screws the Town up doing that.

Yes, you are my second choice besides Org.

[...]
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy?  You're being quite subdued.

And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org?  Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan?  I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried.  Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.

You, sir, are next.

It's obvious that Vector and ToonyMan are the scum. Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.

I could come up with a bandwagoning-on-ExKirby based argument as well, but I like what I've got better.

To Vector and ToonyMan: I'd like to see you two try to talk your way out of this. Emphasis on try, since I fully expect you both to fail miserably, even if you do work together. You know, since you're both scum and all.

[Vector]

Does "I have exams" mean nothing to you?  Such as, say, "Vector cancels playing Mafia; memorizing Analysis proofs"?

[Pandarsenic]

Free Beer, I'm beginning to see your point, do a degree. Before I run my own analysis and vote, I need an answer on this matter:

Nihilist had just unvoted you, hadn't he? He hadn't voted for anyone. If anything, he was a very safe kill. It certainly seems more cautious than most people here would play. Also, in accusations of you (read: Toony's accusation of you), nobody has mentioned Apostolic Nihilist's death. Surely if scum was going to accuse you and use Apostolic Nihilist's death as a springboard, you wouldn't have been first to mention it?

[Free Beer]

Does "I have exams" mean nothing to you?  Such as, say, "Vector cancels playing Mafia; memorizing Analysis proofs"?

Is "I have exams" the best you can come up with? Your silence makes up less than 5% of my argument against you.

Oh, and it's that time of year. I have exams too.

Free Beer, I'm beginning to see your point, do a degree. Before I run my own analysis and vote, I need an answer on this matter:

Nihilist had just unvoted you, hadn't he? He hadn't voted for anyone. If anything, he was a very safe kill. It certainly seems more cautious than most people here would play. Also, in accusations of you (read: Toony's accusation of you), nobody has mentioned Apostolic Nihilist's death. Surely if scum was going to accuse you and use Apostolic Nihilist's death as a springboard, you wouldn't have been first to mention it?

Nihilist was still the only person to come after me in any significant way, and I was the only person that he really came down on hard. I admit that Apoc's death doesn't give much information leading directly back to the scum - really the only things he did were FoS a couple of people, go down the ExKirby track, and attempt to set me up for a lynch after ExKirby. Three possible explanations come to mind:

• Apoc was a random kill. In this case, no evidence would be able to be gleaned from his death. However, this is a sign of poor play on the part of the scum - he went after at least two townies and generally stuck to them, which shows that he'd have been good to keep alive in order to manipulate and/or use as a scapegoat later. There were better kills.
• Apoc was killed in order to reinforce my own belief that I've got the scum. This means that the scum are targeting me, that I am wrong about Vector and/or ToonyMan, and that the scum reviewed my behavior in Beginner's Mafia 2 and are aware of my habits as town. This scenario means that the scum have a plan which hinges on my own ability to convince everyone that Vector and ToonyMan are scum, which I failed miserably at in Beginner's Mafia 2.
• Apoc was killed to draw suspicion toward me. I already stated that I support this notion and explained its implications.

Regarding use of Apoc's death as material to accuse me, such a move might work in lylo, but this early in the game it would be a bad move - assuming they did that and then I died later, the town would be made aware of what happened and would then be able to obtain the identity of at least one mafia. Better to leave it alone and hope someone else mentions it instead.