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[Free Beer]

Why are you voting Vector then?!

Because I have more material on Vector, and am therefore more confident that he is scum.

This post is interesting. Why is ToonyMan so angry over the fact that I'm voting Vector first? Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?

[dakarian]

During your debate, the missing maid bursts into the room, panting, she points at each one of you in sequence.  When she's done, she does it again.

"Where's Apostolic Nihilist?  And why is he the only one missing?"

One of you begin to answer that you don't know, but part of the question sounds odd.  Only one missing?

With a sigh, the maid composes herself visibly, "There's two bodies stuck halfway inside the furnace.  Two bodies.  I didn't plan on two bodies.  I didn't plan on ANY bodies this week."  Mentaly, she seems to be a little less together.

"Stop staring at me!  I'm having a rough week.  Just.. get back to what you were doing pick someone and go to bed.  Last two in will have clean up duty and I know there's another job coming in the morning."

With that, she leaves, though not before patting the pocket sewn into her dress. 


Note: only Apostolic Nihilist had died as far as you really need to be concerned with

Current count.
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Pandarsenic[2]: Vector, Leafsnail
Vector[2]: Free Beer, Org

Not voting: Diakron, Pandarsenic


Past failed vote counts will be blamed on not having the maid around.  The whole hotel would go to pieces without her after all. 

Deadline: Monday, 12th, 11am EST

[Pandarsenic]

Leafsnail, I'm looking at this, and I'm facing a few conundrums.
1) Is Toony scum? His behavior is markedly different, but in a way that helps the town more than his normal actions.
2) Why is Org acting differently?

I'm thinking Toony may have finally realized the Toony Tunnel fails 9 times out of 10, or he may have decided to act differently because he's scum, but I'm leaning more towards Option A.

I think Org, because this is happening in concert with his increased activity in Color Mafia, is not acting particularly like scum, all things considered.

Free Beer is trying to pair two people - I think we should evaluate Toony independently from Vector, but I do think, considering the arguments and replies made, Vector has a good chance of being scum. How good of a chance? Good enough for me to vote for Vector.

[Org]

What is Toony Tunnel?

[Pandarsenic]

What is Toony Tunnel?

Toony Tunnel is when, during the RVS, he asserts he knows someone to be scum and pressures them until they crack.

Of course, if they're not scum they might not crack, and he'll spend ages chasing them.

Or they might get frustrated and slip up despite being town.

Or they might be scum who know it's meaningless.

It's only ever really worked once, I think.

[Vector]

To Vector:

... How pedantic must I be?

All right.  Situation: votes are tied between me and you.  You could move your vote over to me and kill me.  I know I am town.  I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.

Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.

No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play.  ... Only scum would do that, huh?

This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?

1. I do not know that Org is town, darn it.  I know that I am town.  I know nothing about anybody else.

2. I didn't know that ExKirby had more experience than you.  I try to be helpful when I can be.  Apparently, that's not the right answer.  I will try to curb my helpfulness in the future, I suppose.

Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?

Perhaps Vector is vanilla town who communicates badly.

[Free Beer]

To Vector:

... How pedantic must I be?

All right.  Situation: votes are tied between me and you.  You could move your vote over to me and kill me.  I know I am town.  I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.

Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.

No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play.  ... Only scum would do that, huh?

This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?

1. I do not know that Org is town, darn it.  I know that I am town.  I know nothing about anybody else.

2. I didn't know that ExKirby had more experience than you.  I try to be helpful when I can be.  Apparently, that's not the right answer.  I will try to curb my helpfulness in the future, I suppose.

Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?

Perhaps Vector is vanilla town who communicates badly.

Backpedalling.

So you've got no defense left? You're ready to be lynched?

[Org]

To Vector:

... How pedantic must I be?

All right.  Situation: votes are tied between me and you.  You could move your vote over to me and kill me.  I know I am town.  I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.

Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.

No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play.  ... Only scum would do that, huh?

This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?

1. I do not know that Org is town, darn it.  I know that I am town.  I know nothing about anybody else.

2. I didn't know that ExKirby had more experience than you.  I try to be helpful when I can be.  Apparently, that's not the right answer.  I will try to curb my helpfulness in the future, I suppose.

Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?

Perhaps Vector is vanilla town who communicates badly.

You were pretending to be me, and the only way to know I was town is either be Mafia or guess.

[Vector]

You were pretending to be me, and the only way to know I was town is either be Mafia or guess.

I was pretending to be in your position (that being someone who is tied for lynchery, and is watching someone else be a fool), and I know I am town.

[Free Beer]

A mouse scurries by. Its quiet squeaking is the only thing to penetrate the tense silence. Free Beer picks it up by the tail and deposits it in a receptacle for later use.

MOD: Diakron needs to be prodded/replaced. If he's actually here, FoS Diakron for watching us duke it out without providing his own opinion.

Don't take this as having lost focus on Vector, however. He is most definitely scum. Observe: he's got the majority vote, yet he is doing nothing. He's stopped arguing in his own defense (despite the mountain of evidence still waiting for him a few posts back), and he hasn't followed up on any of his suspicions. Everyone responded to his questions ages ago.

What's the matter, Vector? Afraid you'll give off even more scum tells than you already have? Is talking with your scumbuddy really that much more interesting than talking with us?

[Leafsnail]

Unvote.

Free Beer, why are you hitting Vector so much?  You seem to be attacking him very strongly, and yet I cannot see exactly why.  As far as I can tell, it's just because he said "Org is town" by accident.  I'll agree that this would be a mistake, but I'm not sure if it merits this kind of tunnel vision attack.

[Vector]

Don't take this as having lost focus on Vector, however. He is most definitely scum. Observe: he's got the majority vote, yet he is doing nothing. He's stopped arguing in his own defense (despite the mountain of evidence still waiting for him a few posts back), and he hasn't followed up on any of his suspicions. Everyone responded to his questions ages ago.

What's the matter, Vector? Afraid you'll give off even more scum tells than you already have? Is talking with your scumbuddy really that much more interesting than talking with us?

You know, you'd think that if I were scum, I'd have some sort of better defense, rather than just sitting here and being quiet.  The truth is that I'm sick and tired of trying to communicate with you folks.  You take the way I speak as "slipping," when it isn't.  I have trouble with this stuff, and I'm trying to patiently explain what I actually meant, rather than what you heard--and you'll have none of it.

I don't know.  It's really frustrating me.  The main allegations seem to be 1. I was quiet, 2. the whole mess with ExKirby (which I have tried to explain over and over again, to no avail), and 3. some purported connection with ToonyMan.

I may be wrong, of course.  I'll go back and look over the thread.  As it is, though, I'm really, really sick of this sort of situation.  If you lynched me for some other reason, okay.  As it is, though, I feel like I'm getting lynched because I can't figure out how to tell you what I think.  It seems unfortunate.

And, of course, now you're going to tell me I'm playing scum the same way I did in BM1.  Emotional appeals and all that, or something.  All I can do is tell you the truth about what I think, and hope that somebody listens.

Of course I play a bit similarly as town and scum.  I'm fundamentally the same Vector, and no one else.

[Free Beer]

Unvote.

Free Beer, why are you hitting Vector so much?  You seem to be attacking him very strongly, and yet I cannot see exactly why.  As far as I can tell, it's just because he said "Org is town" by accident.  I'll agree that this would be a mistake, but I'm not sure if it merits this kind of tunnel vision attack.

Going back through the thread to find old messages to quote is annoying. But here they are:

Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.

Vector breaks his rare silence to manipulate ExKirby (town) into attacking Org (probably also town). It is worth mentioning that this is the exact same mistake which gave him away in Beginner's Mafia 1:

Dude.  ExKirby.  It was all tied up before you voted for yourself.  If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im.  This is not hard.

...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.

1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.

Vector makes excuses but fails to present any decent points in his own defense. He also contradicts his earlier actions, defending Org despite his earlier attempt to get Org lynched:

Or, you know, ExKirby is being a moron and saying "DUR KILL ME THEN KILL ORG," to which I say "If you want Org dead, do the job yourself."

I don't think Org is scum.  I think ExKirby is acting funky, and I think he's the best person for the town to kill off for information at this point.  I also think that people should be forced to act and play the bloody game.  Risks must be taken.[...]

... In summary, let's kill ExKirby and watch Org for a while, because I don't really see why everyone thinks he's scum.

ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:[...]

[...]
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy?  You're being quite subdued.

And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org?  Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan?  I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried.  Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.

You, sir, are next.

Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.

I could come up with a bandwagoning-on-ExKirby based argument as well, but I like what I've got better.

I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.

Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it.  ExKirby was town.  I honestly thought he was scum.

Underlines are mine. They also contradict each other.

You devoted a paragraph to Pandarsenic, whom you voted for. You devoted two sentences to ToonyMan, which actually contradicted an earlier statement when you said he wasn't suspicious to you (his behavior never changed from then to now). You devoted a paragraph to me, followed by the statement "you're next." After Pandarsenic asked you for more information about your accusation toward him, you stated you were more interested in the responses of ToonyMan and myself. My explanation for your behavior is quite likely, and it assumes you are scum.

If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me.  That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).

You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.

Observe: he's got the majority vote, yet he is doing nothing. He's stopped arguing in his own defense (despite the mountain of evidence still waiting for him a few posts back), and he hasn't followed up on any of his suspicions. Everyone responded to his questions ages ago.

In summary, Vector's story is NOT consistent, and he's been dropping scum-tells left, right, and center. And instead of acknowledging his mistakes, he is trying to downplay them. His latest post is even more evidence of this:

You take the way I speak as "slipping," when it isn't.  I have trouble with this stuff, and I'm trying to patiently explain what I actually meant, rather than what you heard--and you'll have none of it.

I'm not exhibiting tunnel vision. The very fact that I hit up Diakron for lurking just now is evidence of that. I'm focused on Vector because he's obviously scum and he should be lynched today.

[dakarian]

MOD: Diakron needs to be prodded/replaced. If he's actually here, FoS Diakron for watching us duke it out without providing his own opinion.

Prod sent.

Sidenote: mind if Mod requests be put in Bold? Makes it easier to read.

When you guys get busy, all I can mostly see is colored text, bold, and Litia.

[Leafsnail]

Ok, fair enough.  Seems like a good summary.  Unvote.

On the other hand, ToonyMan, you've been very, very quiet.  Even as you were accused, you only seemed to respond half heartedly.  Also, as Free Beer has been attacking Vector, you have said nothing.  Where's your normal aggressive play?  Why are you trying to avoid detection?