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[tehstefan]

I have to say, Dr. Johbson, you bring up some interesting points. My problem with that is Web could very easily lynch me now. If he voted me, It would be two versus one, and the lynch would go through, effectively killing me. And Oh Apostolic I love how self assured you are. It'll be almost nice to see your face when I flip town, and either Dr. Jobhson or Web is laughing all the way to the win. Almost, because I'll lose too.

[tehstefan]

Of, course, there is the chance that you yourself are scum, but I doubt it. I just don't get a scum vibe from you. That, or your ingenious, and should not be playing a newbie game.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

If you kill me, not much changes, except I'm the second-scummiest looking person right now, so you'll have to somehow convince Johbson to vote for webadict.

Webadict, I had a bad feeling about you from the begining. You can guide strings no longer.

...*facepalm*


Uh, so anyways. Right, back to refuting your points, DIRTY LYING SCUM TEHSTEFAN.

Hmm. You bring up a few good points, but they rest on one logical fallacy. I'm town. Since your entire argument is based on my scumness, and I'm town, this means that I will simply have to demolish your argument. We will see if I do it well enough, because either the town will lose with my lynch, or I won't be lynched, and the town may still lose.

In any case, on to the rebuttle.

Your first arguement, that I distanced myself from the scum partner is not technically wrong, but lacks the fact that up until that point, he was lurking, and there was no reason to even notice him. He said very little, and gave off no real tells at that point in the game. So, why waste time telling everyone I don't have enough to read on him?

Because other people were attacking him left and right for precisely those reasons.


Second, that was the first day, and no one had any idea what they were doing. Notice something in your own post, Web voted for Diakron, a confirmed townie! Lawdy, that makes him scummy mcscum no?

He was trying to draw Diakron out. He wasn't bandwagoning with his scumbuddy, like you were.


That next point makes no sense, your basically saying the fact that I  noticed his lurking makes me scum. Right. That is completely rational and rests on a logical arguement. Your grasping at straws here, and that will get us nowhere but with a dead townie.

You noticed his lurking a bit late, wouldn't you say? Nonetheless, you're right; your statement was innocuous.

Next, you base my scumminess off him, but in the same breath say that I was honestly scumhunting. Which is it? Scumhunting, or scum?

You were pretending to scumhunt, since you're scum, you can't do 'true scumhunting'.

My voting for Eduren was based on sound arguments by the other players, yet because I voted for him, I'm scum? Once more it seems like your just trying to shove anything you have at me, rather than attack any legitimate points you may have.

It was more like, "Oh, well jeeze, I defended him a few posts ago before all this happened, but now the tables are completely turned! Better vote him to clear my suspicion."

Then you accuse me of buddying up with web, the IC, who led the charge on the one scum we have lynched. Right, because listening to a more experienced player is obviously scum central. I fail to see how this point holds any water, anymore than many of your own buddy posts.

There's a difference between listening to a more experienced player and saying,
"You're town!
...
...
Oh, but I'll keep my eye on you anyways!"


As for your last point, I stand by my statement. Look who didn't die, Webadict, and now your using that arguement against me, hoping that it'll work.

Then, the little thing extra there, I find it silly you would go back on your word. A ploy, supposedly, but more likely your backtracking, and trying to find an easier lynch.

If I'm town (as you say in your next post) then why would I want an easier lynch? I wouldn't. Rather, you found an easier lynch than even I; Johbson.


Now, Webadict's post.

No lynching is probably our best bet, like he said. Unvote No Lynch it eliminates a town player, though I don't like how one could so quickly quicklynch someone.

It does eliminate a town player, that's less people you need to manipulate to get what you want.
Web's suggestion of no lynch makes sense if we're dealing with experienced players, but given the current situation, it may not be the best thing we can do. For one, none of us are agreeing on anything. If we no-lynch and then I'm killed, it'll be easy for you to convince Johbson to go after web.



There, I said my piece, now I leave it to you to decide.

Onto Johbson... I have a feeling I should split that off into a seperate post too; this one is bulky.

[tehstefan]

Ah, tunnelvision. It killed off quite a few games, and will be the doom of this one. You would rather focus on me, than to look for scumtells out of any other person. You would rather take me down, and lose, than open your eyes, and try to look elsewhere. There are plenty of other scumtells, but you focus on me. Look, think, analyze!

[Apostolic Nihilist]

GAH, I say, gah.

Well, first, I have to say, what Webadict and Apostolic said about Tehstefan, makes alot of sense, and his replies to it seem to be paniced and defensive. (IE, Scummy)

You can explain away his behaviour as being 'flustered townie', but that only goes so far. Right now we're dealing with someone who has seen their plan fall to pieces right before their eyes and they're trying desperately to tape it back together.

Well, first, lets do a list of some notes I have on you mates.

Apostolic- Replaced..Someone, hunts scum with much gusto, I really don't think he's scum. Quite helpful.

Tehstefan- Everything Apostolic said about him makes much sense, and his reply made him look very, very scummy. But something doesn't feel right..

You're doubting the answer, which is sort of a problem. Looking at Tehstefan, he's been sending out scumtells all along. Webadict hasn't (you can explain this away with, "He's an IC!", but surely there should've been something.)


Webadict- Alright. Lets play a little game here, shall we? I'm going to propose what I saw after a few moments of thinking of a no-lynch.

At the moment, there are four people left in play. Lets say Webadict is scum, and we go for no-lynch. He nightkills, say, me.

Alright, two townies and one scum. Scum-Webadict knows that Apostolic suspects both of them, but at the moment, suspects Stefan more. All he does is have to say a few choice words, and he convices Apostolic that Stefan is scum, and he wins.

My point, being, that if we no-lynch, the scum will only have to convince ONE person that he is not scum. Thus, No-Lynching is a very, very bad idea. And, for an IC to propose such a thing..

Webadict, I had a bad feeling about you from the begining. You can guide strings no longer.

This is completely possible. Webadict could be behind it all, but he also might not be. You have to look at it this way: we can end the game tonight. Suggesting a no-lynch is inherently a pro-town action. He could've easily jumped on the tehstefan bandwagon and killed him tonight, winning the game. The fact that he didn't means that he's either:
A) A bad scum player.
B) Town.


PREPOSTEDIT-

wordswordswords

As you can see from this post, tefstefan does not put up a fight for not wanting to have a no lynch. Now, this can mean two things, either he is not scum as without thinking about a no-lynch, it does look like it would help the town, or, that he is scum, and he's thinking the same thing I am about only having to convince one person.

This tatic would also work less for him, because people still suspect him. If he NKed me, Web and Apostolic would believe it to be Stefan. If he were to NK Web, me and Apostolic would believe it to be stefan. If he NKed Apostolic, me and web would still think it to be stefan.

Except where you just said you thought it was webadict; this is where a problem arises. He only needs to convince one person that he's not scum, and he's won. Given your suspicions of webadict, this may be easier than one would think.


ANOTHERPREPOSTEDITDAMMITGUYS-I have a feeling this post wil change your mind about my muteness. I'll let you ask me again after this post and I'll answer it then.

I never saw you as particularly inactive; you're one of the most active recent posters. tehstefan was just looking for an easy lynch.

Originally, I'd say that no-lynch would be perfect. The "best" solution, we'd know for sure who was scum tomorrow.

...but Johbson's post changed my mind about that. He suspects webadict. That means if I'm NK'd, and it's down to tehstefan, webadict, and him, there's a chance of town losing.

I am 100% certain that tehstefan is scum. It's an extremely strong feeling. Part of me says, "He's a newbie, making newbie mistakes, just like ExKirby!", but I can't believe that. Not after it's gone on this long. He would've messed up earlier if he was a complete newb.

[tehstefan]

100% really? Your that convinced, not even a shadow of a doubt? Are you really that dense? You'd ignore all the other scum tells people give off, just so you can lynch me. Ah well, if your town, losing will never feel so good, and if your scum, well, hats off. You played us all.

[tehstefan]

Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

100% really? Your that convinced, not even a shadow of a doubt? Are you really that dense? You'd ignore all the other scum tells people give off, just so you can lynch me. Ah well, if your town, losing will never feel so good, and if your scum, well, hats off. You played us all.

I just read through the thread again, analyzing Johbson's posts. Guess what I found out? He was a bit scummy sometimes, but every time he was scummy, you were even more.

He followed after webadict's deduction involving Criptfeind. After he posted, you posted. That's the third vote.


Scenarios like this are everywhere I look. Johbson is either a magnificent scum player, or a good town player. That's where the overlap is. Everything Johbson does is something skilled scum could do, imitating a decent town player. As for you? Not so much. You either thought too much or didn't think enough about your decisions and tried to sneak under the radar.

It's interesting to note; you've been behind Jobhson for quite some time.
He votes someone, you follow him. He contacts Eduren, you contact Eduren. He bandwagons with web, you bandwagon with web.

I can tell that you're a new scum player, but have experience with mafia. For the early part of the game, you were hesitant toward doing anything major or important by yourself, or making any major accusations. You tended to stand in other people's shadows.

If you aren't town, then I suppose I'm wrong, but there's no reason for me to be aggravated — if someone looks, breathes, and acts like scum, but they aren't scum... well, that's an unfortunate twist of fate, but that's all it is.


Also, you accuse me of tunnelvision: I would understand that if I hadn't switched my vote to you from webadict, or if I hadn't almost gone along with the no-lynch.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.

Gah, these posts send me into a blind fury.

THIS IS NOT HOW TOWN SHOULD ACT.

Don't try and shame someone (who has valid reason for thinking you scum) into not voting for you!
Use guilt, at the very least!

"Listen, I understand that you're dead-set on this, but if you keep your vote on me, you're messing it up for all of us. One more night will give us the time we need to figure out who's who, so just hold off for a minute. I'm sure we'll sort it through then."
works mountains better than
"You are wrong! Think of how bad it is to be wrong, hah hah!"

[tehstefan]

Well, by now its over, so what does it matter to you? I could say whatever I wanted, and you said yourself, I'm one hundred percent scum. If that's true, nothing I can do will change things. I'm just having fun now, I tried my best, and now its just up to see where the chips fall now.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

It isn't over yet!

For one, as it stands, we'll end up not lynching anyone unless Johbson decides to change his vote. Then we'll have to wait until tomorrow to settle this (it may be better that way, depending on who you NK.)

[tehstefan]

Hmm, maybe I'll just not NK anyone huh? Oooh, throws a wrench in your plans. Considering I'm not scum, doesn't really matter.

And of course its not over yet. But we are headed for a no lynch, and so until that happens, I can't say for certainty anything other than your going to probably vote me no matter what.

[tehstefan]

EBWOP: Also, thank you for reacting so splendidly to those posts. Now if only the other two would do the same, I could pick the scum. In any case, your not scum. Thanks for proving that to me.

[webadict]

...

Okay, let's think about this in a purely statistical point of view. There are 4 of us and 1 scum. That means there's a 25% chance of someone being scum. If we lynch, we have a 1-in-4 chance of being right and therefore winning. If we do not lynch, there's a 33% chance of someone being scum. Therefore, we have a much higher chance of winning.

It also tells us, in a WIFOM kind of way, about the scum.

But, ya know... I completely disagree with you Dr.Johbson. While the scum has to only make one person think they're scum, scum tend to be more jumpy during lylo. And with four people alive, decision-making is much harder. It's harder to find scum. It's even harder to LYNCH scum. You have to convince everyone that this person is scum. It'll take three permanent votes to lynch. So, yes it's a cushion for overzealous lynchers, but it helps scum a lot more.

But I can't blame you. I am, indeed, scummy for simply being alive. There is no doctor, so I shouldn't be alive, because my being alive only hurts scum.

Which is probably why I'm alive now. I... tend to get distracted by lurkers. It's a gamble, but seeing as how scum are down to 1 person anyhow, I think the whole game was probably a gamble.

Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.

Giving up isn't going to help any team you're a part of.

Well, by now its over, so what does it matter to you? I could say whatever I wanted, and you said yourself, I'm one hundred percent scum. If that's true, nothing I can do will change things. I'm just having fun now, I tried my best, and now its just up to see where the chips fall now.

This post only makes you scummier. I really would like a No Lynch, but if everyone refuses to listen to logic, then either tehstefan or Dr.Johbson is scum. Apostolic is simply impossible. However... I'm pretty sure Dr.Johbson is town. But, I still want that No Lynch. Even though Apostolic will likely be killed, I'd much rather it happened, because it helps town more often than not.

Oh jetsquirrel, you going to be posting here anytime soon? It seems to me your lurking very well. Considering we don't have another lead, perhaps we should press the lurkers.

Web, what did Eduren's flip mean to you? Do you have any suspicions about who might be scum now that he's dead? Or are we blank slate?

It seems so much more suspicious.

Hmm, maybe I'll just not NK anyone huh? Oooh, throws a wrench in your plans. Considering I'm not scum, doesn't really matter.

And of course its not over yet. But we are headed for a no lynch, and so until that happens, I can't say for certainty anything other than your going to probably vote me no matter what.

Games I've played tend to have a 3-Day "No Death" policy where if there are no deaths for 3 Days, it's a Draw.

Defeatism is a scumtell. It's an appeal to emotion, where you're hoping someone will sympathize with your situation and save you for you. And even if you're not scum, you're not helping your team. The whole point of this game is to play, and by not playing...

[tehstefan]

Defeatism is a scumtell. It's an appeal to emotion, where you're hoping someone will sympathize with your situation and save you for you. And even if you're not scum, you're not helping your team. The whole point of this game is to play, and by not playing...

Actually, web, I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm definitely not out of this yet, not by a long shot. Like I said, We will see where the chips fall, who gets NK'd, and who is really scum.