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[webadict]

This is lylo. That means if we lynch incorrectly, we lose. That means when there are two votes on someone, it's hammer.

So, let's start: Dr.Johbson, you've posted fairy often, sometimes with posts that were... less than helpful. You seem to know a thing or two about mafia, as did Apostolic Nihilist. No one has suspected you at almost any time in the game. That doesn't mean you're not suspicious: You are.

But... you're not nearly as suspicious as tehstefan.

Tehstefan, for every post that you've made, Dr.Johbson has made two of equal or greater content. Your general attitude is scummy and you've gotten a good case of defeatism.

The Night Kill of Apostolic was obvious. He was town and everyone knew it. Dr.Johbson wouldn't kill him, unless he really wanted to go the hard way. Dr.Johbson would kill me. Apostolic would've definitely gone for you and Dr.Johbson would've followed. However, I initially thought you were going to go for me. Dr.Johbson still suspects me (I think), and I'd figured you'd go about this from that angle (I believe you're leaving it open.) However, Dr.Johbson would've killed me and gone after you if he were scum. It'd be easier to get Apostolic to lynch you than for me.

You, however, had no one to kill but the person that was after you the hardest and was the most obvious town. With his death, less suspicion is placed on you and would be spread more evenly among everyone. With Apostolic's death, you get a voice.

I'm just not seeing Dr.Johbson fit into that kill or even as scum. Only you. Which, in itself, may be suspicious. But, I'm still thinking it's you.

[tehstefan]

Webadict, my problem with your statement about my posts, is that he most definitely did not post twice as many good posts as I have. Many of his posts are jumping on bandwagon's, or complete rubbish!  No offense meant, but half the time you could hardly tell what he meant. Sure, he got better as the game went on, but he still oftentimes just randomly added a vote, with little or no reason.

As for the kill, my concern with your post is that I'm still here. Dr. Johbson could have very likely well lynched him, expecting me to jump on you immediately, considering my past suspicions. Your problem with this whole theory is also that I'm gunning for you. I'm not. Your definitely second on my scum list, obviously, so if I were "Gunning for you" As it were, I would have not push for Dr. Johbson, since if I were scum, why attack the one person that could get me a win? That would be horrible strategy.

[webadict]

Webadict, my problem with your statement about my posts, is that he most definitely did not post twice as many good posts as I have. Many of his posts are jumping on bandwagon's, or complete rubbish!  No offense meant, but half the time you could hardly tell what he meant. Sure, he got better as the game went on, but he still oftentimes just randomly added a vote, with little or no reason.

As for the kill, my concern with your post is that I'm still here. Dr. Johbson could have very likely well lynched him, expecting me to jump on you immediately, considering my past suspicions. Your problem with this whole theory is also that I'm gunning for you. I'm not. Your definitely second on my scum list, obviously, so if I were "Gunning for you" As it were, I would have not push for Dr. Johbson, since if I were scum, why attack the one person that could get me a win? That would be horrible strategy.

No, I'm saying that you, as scum, would go for me, which is a substantially easier lynch than going for Dr.Johbson. I was surprised that you'd go for Doc at all, because I think he's town.

And maybe twice as many is an overstatement. I'm saying he's been more helpful than you, though. I suppose that he did have to have encouragement at times, but he's been pretty straightforward and honest, as far as I can tell.

[tehstefan]

Thats what I'm saying. If I were scum, why the hell would I go after him? Your convinced I'm scum, he's only somewhat sure, so the obvious solution would be to attack you, and hope to convince him.  If I were scum, this would be like shooting myself in the foot, then attempting to climb a mountain! If I were good enough to last this far, would I really do something that stupid?

Thats what I meant.

Sure, he's been straightfoward and honest. He's also not been here! Any time serious discussion comes up, he vanishes, only to throw a vote on whatever bandwagon has been formed, to appear like he's not lurking. He does it to jetsquirrel, he does it to Redwarrior, he just posts, then vanishes. He only started contributing right near the end, when there weren't any more people to hide behind.

[webadict]

Thats what I'm saying. If I were scum, why the hell would I go after him? Your convinced I'm scum, he's only somewhat sure, so the obvious solution would be to attack you, and hope to convince him.  If I were scum, this would be like shooting myself in the foot, then attempting to climb a mountain! If I were good enough to last this far, would I really do something that stupid?

Thats what I meant.

Sure, he's been straightfoward and honest. He's also not been here! Any time serious discussion comes up, he vanishes, only to throw a vote on whatever bandwagon has been formed, to appear like he's not lurking. He does it to jetsquirrel, he does it to Redwarrior, he just posts, then vanishes. He only started contributing right near the end, when there weren't any more people to hide behind.

Interesting. You bring up some valid points.

However, if you're good enough to get this far, would you think to do that in order to make yourself seem townie? I'm not sure. That's a very classic case of WIFOM.

Let's not play the "This is what I'd do if I did it" game. That doesn't help us. Let's use logic. How does killing Apostolic help Dr.Johbson and not you? From the way I see it, you gain more from it than he does. He only gains lack of suspicion. You gain lack of suspicion overall, and an insta-lynch.

[Dr. Johbson]

Alright, well, I know that I'm not scum, and thus the one who's besmerching my good name is likely scum, as I see it.

The events that happened only lead me to believe that Stefan killed Apostolic because, that was his only choice. Plus, the obvious, "I'm not scum, I wouldn't have done that kill" thing. Lets go over another list of what could have happened.

Stefan NKs me. Apostolic already knows that Stefan is scum, and I very much doubt Webadict would vote Apostolic.
Stefan NKs Web. Again, Apostolic votes Stefan, and so do I. Killing Webadict here would be the worst possible thing to do.
Stefan NKs Apostolic. He gets rid of his prime suspect, and again, only has to convince one of the other's scumminess.

I didn't even know you thought I was Scum, Stefan. I remember you saying a few times over that you thought I was town. What changed your mind? Or am I just the easist target, because you know that if you went for Web, you wouldn't have a chance?


I am glad Apostolic was NKed. I wasn't getting a scum vibe off him at all, but, I was also not sure, seeing as how he just popped up, replacing..Someone or another.

Now, lets do another list, this time, if I were scum.

I NK Apostolic, a person that surely would vote for Stefan. I then have to bother to convince Webadict that you are scum and I am not. An easy lynch then becomes something I would actually have to work towards.
I NK Stefan. Apostolic and I are shocked, and I'm not sure what would happen at this point.
I NK Web. I suspect a little 'resistance' if you know what I mean, but I believe two votes for stefan would appear sooner or later.

The whole thing about me only bandwagoning and such? To be blunt, rubbish. I would like to see once where I did such a thing. I've not dodged a single discussion. Coming to them late is just because of my timetable.

..Make that twice, I'm sure I'n not perfect. 

I might write something up for Web later, but I don't really think he's scum. We'll see.

Also, about hammering, does that mean its a bad idea to vote until I'm very very sure I know who's scum?

[tehstefan]

Yeah.  The reason why you don't vote, is because of the simple fact whoever votes, then can simply have the mafia jump on it, and its near impossible to stop.

[tehstefan]

Web, I pose you this question. Does it matter who he NK'd? In the end, it doesn't matter who he kills. You said simply I was most likely scum, and said he was town. He knew everyone was expecting me to kill him, so why not confirm everyone's suspicion? At this point, it was simply to cast me in the worst light possible, so there would be no hesitation to lynch me. He couldn't lynch you, because that might give Apostolic a reason to pause, so he picked the target that would make me look worst, and figured you'd simply come around.

Of course, I will supply those quotes soon.

[tehstefan]

Everyone, before I go, I have to ask for something. I've been thinking, and I have to ask Web, am I right in thinking that this stage should go on for a while? It seems to me that considering there are three people, any intense discussion is only going to help the town, as any scum would have to keep up the facade the entire time, so I propose we wait until tuesday to vote.

Just wanted to see everyone's take on this. My first time ever getting past day one, new to this whole thing.

[Dr. Johbson]

Well, I think you're scum and Web's not, so, If you guys wanna go on about that for a while, fine with me.

[Dr. Johbson]

so = but*

[webadict]

Also, about hammering, does that mean its a bad idea to vote until I'm very very sure I know who's scum?

Yes. When you're 100% sure someone is scum. If it takes a while, that's fine. In IRC, this usually takes a couple of minutes (Which is long), and I've seen one of these go for 20 minutes.

Web, I pose you this question. Does it matter who he NK'd? In the end, it doesn't matter who he kills. You said simply I was most likely scum, and said he was town. He knew everyone was expecting me to kill him, so why not confirm everyone's suspicion? At this point, it was simply to cast me in the worst light possible, so there would be no hesitation to lynch me. He couldn't lynch you, because that might give Apostolic a reason to pause, so he picked the target that would make me look worst, and figured you'd simply come around.

Of course, I will supply those quotes soon.

Who was NKed has... some meaning. It does not make the game, no. The reasons that were listed were exactly what I was thinking. So, unless Dr. Johbson can read minds, you're more likely scum than he is. Except for the fact that you were going to be lynched no matter what, right?

Everyone, before I go, I have to ask for something. I've been thinking, and I have to ask Web, am I right in thinking that this stage should go on for a while? It seems to me that considering there are three people, any intense discussion is only going to help the town, as any scum would have to keep up the facade the entire time, so I propose we wait until tuesday to vote.

Just wanted to see everyone's take on this. My first time ever getting past day one, new to this whole thing.

This stage lasts for as long as it has to. Whether that's Days or Hours or Minutes is up to the players. Waiting until Tuesday to vote isn't necessary if someone is positive of another's scumminess. But, more discussion never hurts.

[tehstefan]

Back from church, and as promised, I gave you quotes.

Randomly lynching and trying to find scum isn't a good scum-finding tactic, Diakron. Unvote. Vote Jetsquirrel. Lurking be bad, yo.

This is my first piece of evidence. You randomly tag a vote on someone, yet I’d already voted for them, so what was the point of adding another?  He didn’t need more than one vote. Also, your practically doing the same thing that your chiding Diakron for, randomly voting for a person.

Well, hell. The doctor is dead, and now so is another normal townie. After reading through some select player's posts thus far, I have found a few more things I would like to comment on. First, the obvious. Webadict, you're not dead yet, and our doctor is gone. Thoughts, comments? I'm also seeing you attack people less than you usaully do, which was fine for the first day or two, but you still seem lax, and too kind, for day four. Second, Diakron, I know you're hurt and all that, but I'm sure you're still able to bring up a small list of what you think. You obviously still think I'm scum, would be great if you could share that and more with us all. Third, RedWarrior, you are not going to escape my wrath this turn. You haven't posted anything useful in..Well, since day one. Apostolic Nihilist, tell us what you think/believe. Please try to show up more than Jet did.

Here’s my next piece.  For me, its not just the vote, which wasn’t really bandwagoning, it was you also pushing Diakron and webadict, but not doing anything about them.  To me, it seems like you were trying to start a lynch on a lurker, something everyone would go for.

There’s my two pieces of evidence, as requested. In fact, I’ll throw out one more, just to be nice like that,

I don't know, Eduren, Webadict was right, you didn't seem to do much 'original thinking' yourself. Your defense was lackluster, as well, really. Eduren RedWarrior, come tell us what you think of stuff.

This one is a bit trickier to prove. You were bandwagoning, but on a scum. However, I don’t believe that absolves you. You saw that both Vector and Web  were severely suspicious of him, and decided to throw a quick vote in there, then duck out. Bussing your buddy wouldn’t be that far fetched, especially since Eduren likely told you to do it. Just because its on a mafia doesn’t mean your absolved of it. As well. This took place over the span of two days no less, so there should be no reason you couldn’t have read it all, and put some more thought into things, rather than just voting then ducking out.

Everyone of you deserves a medal!

Also, I’d just like to add this. This is during the middle of the discussion, right in the thick of it. So, no, I don’t believe a word you say when you tell me you couldn’t be there. Yeah. If you have time to write down a horrible active lurking reply, you have time to justify your reasonings.

[Dr. Johbson]

Uh, I think if I added my own lines between quotes, it would be really messy, so Im just going to have numbers.

Paragraph 1-
I did that so Jet would have the most votes on him at the moment. An active lurker with one vote on him would have little panic, but one with the majority should come right out into the spotlight. I don't consider this bandwagoning,  but, alright.

Paragraph 2-
I really don't see anything scummy with what I did. I really don't like lurkers.

Paragraph 3+4- I've only recently (IE last two days, not counting this one?) begun really writing more, I tried to write stuff but nothing came up. So yes, I was active lurking until I got finally got the hang of it.

Also to be horribly ironic I'll write more regarding this and other fantastic products later.

[webadict]

I know this is tough, guys, but we can't just leave this game at a standoff.

I'm still 90-10 toward tehstefan. However, it's really late, and I'll post tomorrow exactly what I think.