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[USEC_OFFICER]

a lot of my boyfriends have been trans men

The exact context from the last time Descan talked about getting snipped. So you are entirely correct.

[JoshuaFH]

What's the point of getting snipped if you're gay?

IIRC Descan has mentioned sometimes getting it on with trans-men.

I actually remembered that, I was just completely wrong about what trans-men were. I thought they were Men > Women, but it's actually the opposite apparently. Gee willikers.

Stupid Question is over, it is safe to leave your homes now.

[Teneb]

Stupid Question is over, it is safe to leave your homes now.

Oh, good. I can get out of my panic room now. Thought I'd be there all day.

Anyway, finally got around to setting a schedule to finally do some exercises. Getting tired of no one letting me to anything physical just because I am extremely thin (when in truth I am actually pretty damn resilient (though certainly not strong) due to not being able to feel... not pain, I can feel that even if in a different way... agony?). In hindsight, this doesn't sound too much of a happy, even if it is.

[Descan]

Even if I never sleep with another person with a uterus (which I probably will do) I don't want any genetic children for myself, for various reasons. If I ever DO want a child (unlikely!) then I'll just adopt

[TD1]

I'm a selfish, vainglorious git in that regard. I like the idea of genetic continuity and family line, so if someone ever consents to be my assistant in the experiment I'll probably have children. I also view it as the closest thing to immortality I'm likely to have, though alas it's nowhere near the real deal.

Plus, I love kids. My nephew has me wrapped around his little finger, and the sad thing is he knows it.

[Loud Whispers]

My mind, heart, biology all says have kids, thus have kids
Naught selfish about it unless you see life as inherently selfish, which it is, but fuck the universe - it doesn't care what you do

[Flying Dice]

Well, it's selfish to have any more than three if you can reasonably expect them to live to adulthood. Five is right out.

[Loud Whispers]

Well, it's selfish to have any more than three if you can reasonably expect them to live to adulthood. Five is right out.

Why's that? Larger family support network means even four generations after you're dead everyone's still sorted

[JoshuaFH]

My mind, heart, biology all says have kids, thus have kids
Naught selfish about it unless you see life as inherently selfish, which it is, but fuck the universe - it doesn't care what you do

"Because I want to" has always seemed like really flimsy reasoning when it comes to the act of having children. Creating a person, who will be depending on you for everything, not just genetics but raising and molding who they are, and then they will live through all the anguishes of life exactly as you are, until they themselves create on offspring or die... the gravity of that choice seems so significant that I'm stunned that people make it so routinely, and at that why pregnancy is heralded at all as a good thing worth celebration.

Shit, if I could go back in time, I'd kill my mother to prevent her from giving birth to me, committing suicide by paradox. She's just always been one of those people who shouldn't have been allowed to have children.

Eugenics as an idea is deplorable, because governmental control of reproduction opens up Pandora's Box of possible long term oppression of the masses, but on the other hand, I can't help but think that a lot of people are born into pointlessly painful and difficult lives, unable to really fully enjoy life or contribute to the society which is partly responsible for their creation, just because society's ideas of childrearing is laissez-faire.

And my those ideas apply to myself and my own potential children as well. Who's to say that because my own upbringing contained no stable father figure, that I'd be an inadequate father, even if I were fully present in my child's life, that I'd simply be incompetent? Is that not unfair to the hypothetical child, who didn't ask to be born?

Who's to say that my own genetics are of any value at all? Why should it be? What makes mine so worthwhile as to be worth perpetuating? I'm not saying adoption is the better option, but it does completely hop over the unlikely but still very possible chance that any child your seed creates simply comes out deformed or sickly. And while I have nothing against handicapped people, accidentally creating one is a worst case scenario, atleast in my mind, I'm probably approaching this from a completely cynical angle though.

Obviously I'm a lot more conflicted on the matter, but I'm a lot more conflicted than most people about a lot of things.

[Flying Dice]

Well, it's selfish to have any more than three if you can reasonably expect them to live to adulthood. Five is right out.

Why's that? Larger family support network means even four generations after you're dead everyone's still sorted

Unsustainable growth. We're already well past the point where everyone on the planet can live in an industrialized or post-industrial society. If each person has two children from their own loins who survive to adulthood, that's a slight net increase in global population (due to medical advancements increasing life expectancy). Allow three maximum because some people will only ever have one, some will never reproduce or die before they can, &c. and you're still holding steady.

Fucking like rabbits was a good survival strategy when most of your kids would die young. Nowadays we're still wired like that, but almost all children will survive to adulthood in most of the world, people are living even longer (and remaining fertile for longer), and we're past the point where society can easily bear the weight of more people (since you can't just send them out to the frontier and have them start up their own little farmsteads or whatever).

It's socially reprehensible to have more than ~2 children in your lifetime because you're directly contributing to resource depletion, pollution, and myriad other problems. Tragedy of the Commons at work, with the whole Earth as the field in question.

Adopting is one of the most ethical options there is when it comes to having kids, not only because of giving homes to children in need, but because it doesn't worsen overpopulation. If you really want a ton of kids, have one or two and adopt more.

As for the extended support network, we're already moving back towards older models of large extended families living in close proximity due to economic concerns-the "fuck off at 16/18 and live alone" model was only really sustainable when you could buy a car for $500 and have it last years, and live comfortably enough on entry-level work you could get with no more than a high school diploma. Not so any more.

[Gunner-Chan]

This is getting a bit heavy for this topic I think. This isn't the place to be saying so and so should of died or not had kids or calling things socially reprehensible.

[Flying Dice]

I'll drop it, but where did anyone say that someone should have died? 

[Eric Blank]

^
Gunner-Chan is queen. Obey.


Today I finally got a haircut. Been really irritable lately with my hair getting all curly.

[Gunner-Chan]

Admittedly I just stopped reading joshes post when I saw "mother" come up and moved on because I had an idea where the post was going. I don't know if he actually said it.

[TD1]

I'll just go tell my four siblings that.

I don't think we're necessarily the problem. In fact, countries like Italy and Japan, some  Scandinavian ones (if not all of them) are now facing population problems for the opposite reason - too few childer, to use a local colloquialism. As women's rights activists got their guns blazing, child birth went down - women are working instead of breeding. 2.1 per woman, I think, is the sustainable number when taking into account infant mortality. This is the result. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?end=2014&start=1960&view=chart

Instead of telling people not to have so many children, a much better controlling method is quite simply improving the rights of women, and educating them properly - both in terms of career and contraceptive use - in countries where they are viewed primarily as childer makers.

Edit: Whoops adaisy. Should have read ninjas.

If anyone has anything to say to the above, PM me.
Further Edit: Never mind! Seems the debate is still ongoing below, mwahaha. *Cue evil clowns.*