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Author Topic: [MILK] There were 12 eggs here what did you do with them? (Happy thread?!)  (Read 16202051 times)

misko27

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120765 on: February 01, 2014, 11:24:13 pm »

Kill the "faceless mook" trope.
That's... pretty limiting to the whole field of escapism and entertainment and whatnot. Y'already hear a lot of complaint (and occasional backlash) towards making the "bad guys" relatable or whatev', because (among other reasons) it makes everything same-y. And part of the reason many turn to fiction to begin with is to be able to deal with simple scenarios. It's reasonable to not go the other way and have nothing but blunt good/evil stuff, but too far in either direction hurts the world of storytelling. Cuts off so many possibilities at the knee.

I mean... you'd have to ditch the Zerg. And the Orkz. All sorts of robot uprisings. Pretty much the entire zombie subgenre. Almost anything caste based (in the sense of ants and whatnot) that have part of their species non-sentient. Just... a lot. Faceless mooks provide a lot of opportunities to storytelling ;_;
Beat-em ups basically die. FPS fair a little better, but not by much. Strategy games involving commanding mooks get nuked. Gangs have to go. Armies in general are banned. Super-villains can't have henchmen. And so on.

It kills most games that immediately come to mind actually. Not even to mention other media.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120766 on: February 01, 2014, 11:25:40 pm »

I think one thing we have to keep in mind about aliens is that they're almost no different from us (Having their own "Space Age" and so forth). They must've had fiction where we, humans, were the enemy and such; and who knows, their 'human porn' could be equivalent to our 'tentacle porn'. Think about that for awhile, and maybe apply some brain bleach if that's not your thing. In essence, consider everyone and everything as not-so-different. Basically, the universe is wierd, and that's not delving into the possibility of alternate universes, and universes operated by a different God instead of the traditional One we have.

I think I mentioned it before in a recent thread about PC-behavior getting a little too "serious business". I mean, Imagine how alien 'alien invasion movies' must be if we were the enemy in them? I'd be more intrigued than offended. I want to know how aliens think of us, how we fight and so forth without any prior knowledge of us.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 11:30:21 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Rose

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120767 on: February 01, 2014, 11:35:38 pm »

More likely, they'd have fiction with other aliens in it, that bear no resemblance to us.
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Flying Dice

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120768 on: February 01, 2014, 11:52:01 pm »

Re: political correctness in regards to aliens.


There's an easy solution. We stop fucking portraying ethnic groups of people as inherently evil. Kill the "faceless mook" trope.

Making them "orcs" or whatever isn't really better. To eliminate unfortunate implications you have to eliminate excuses to hate entire groups of people.

As others have said, killing that kills a good chunk of media. The long and short of it is that (escapism aside), if an author/dev/whatever goes through the effort of humanizing and filling in motivations for everyone the protagonists come into conflict with, even when they literally are faceless mooks, the story breaks. Not because there's something inherently wrong with humanizing the "enemies" of a particular conflict, but because doing so in a way that's even remotely effective creates massive amounts of what is essentially filler content, unnecessarily lengthening the work substantially, as well as making it unfocused and shaky (because so much time is spent on all of the secondary and bit characters that the main cast--on all sides--have less screen time, and thus less opportunity to hook readers/players/whatever on their personalities and motivations.

Be honest, when you come down to it, it defeats the point to have a story that is about every single character that appears in it. I'm totally on board with the "lets' not encourage blind hatred of group X", but that doesn't equate to, "there can't be any groups of bit-character antagonists that have little or no characterization ever". If you write a battle scene in which every single soldier who's on-screen has their moment in the spotlight, for example, it's going to come off as (again) weak and unfocused. This is an incredibly basic element of characterization; characters tend to be increasingly dimensional in proportion to their importance to the story. A guard who appears for ten minutes and dies isn't worth more than a sentence or two of description, because he exists to be there and die to help advance the plot. When a character is fighting against an authoritarian dictator, you don't stop to justify and explains the reasons that each of the state's soldiers has for serving loyally.

Leaving aside the practicality of it, it'd also be incredibly dull (not to mention removing the possibility of subverting the trope--that's entertaining precisely because it doesn't happen very often; it'd just be tired if it did).

Wait, why is this in the happy thread? o.0
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tahujdt

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120769 on: February 02, 2014, 12:01:10 am »

Because this is Bay12, and all rails have been torn up and shipped north to Dwarf Mode Discussion to be melted down for !!SCIENCE!!.
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Bauglir

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120770 on: February 02, 2014, 12:04:42 am »

Well, the way I see it, Bay12 is a website. And a website is constructed with a variety of metals, glasses, semiconductors, and so on. So, really, basically a very sophisticated rock.

THERE ARE ROCKS SMARTER THAN BAUGLIR

So I choose not to question it.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

misko27

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120771 on: February 02, 2014, 12:09:13 am »

Wait a minute, what about clones? They would all have the same motives, not requiring further explanation!
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Tack

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120772 on: February 02, 2014, 12:11:46 am »

We have to negatively portray something, or we'll run out of antagonists. COD is even starting to get in trouble for their Russia/China whathaveyou.
This is why I'm waiting until the US gets the negative portrayal. I mean, aside from certain MGS games.
Spec Ops: The Line?
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Flying Dice

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120773 on: February 02, 2014, 12:32:08 am »

We have to negatively portray something, or we'll run out of antagonists. COD is even starting to get in trouble for their Russia/China whathaveyou.
This is why I'm waiting until the US gets the negative portrayal. I mean, aside from certain MGS games.
Spec Ops: The Line?
This. It only gets worse.

Wait a minute, what about clones? They would all have the same motives, not requiring further explanation!
That's only if you assume that they're incapable of learning or remembering anything past the point of memory implantation. Otherwise they're a bunch of people who develop like anyone else, albeit from a much more complex starting point than being born as a human infant. Also, it's pretty damned questionable to kill a bunch of people who are opposing you most likely because they were literally created to do so, and who haven't had the chance to make their own choice on the matter.
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Frumple

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120774 on: February 02, 2014, 12:50:49 am »

That's only if you assume that they're incapable of learning or remembering anything past the point of memory implantation. Otherwise they're a bunch of people who develop like anyone else, albeit from a much more complex starting point than being born as a human infant. Also, it's pretty damned questionable to kill a bunch of people who are opposing you most likely because they were literally created to do so, and who haven't had the chance to make their own choice on the matter.
This, yes. The answer, of course, is hiveminds and/or puppets. Non-sentient but highly adaptable combat pseudo-AI using drones/puppet bodies -- and you damn sure better believe you can adapt the concept to fantasy and other genres -- would be pretty close to ideal.

Might even be an interesting hook. Training program goes rogue, takes over a facility with plenty of production capability, goal of the protagonists is to actually break in and uplift the program to full sentience (for technobabble reasons preventing a straight shutoff, or something along those lines). Mooks averted (one foe, but many bodies), violence justified (mere troubleshooting! With bullets.).

Does have a bit of a nasty "for its own good" undervibe, though. Still...
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freeformschooler

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« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:19:00 am by freeformschooler »
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Parsely

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120776 on: February 02, 2014, 01:51:26 am »

Some of those things in the article about RTSs actually sound like hilariously great ideas.

Quote from: FFS' Linked Cracked Article
Gamers complain about bad "pathfinding" (that is, your units wandering around the map and falling into the river against your orders). Well, I want worse pathfinding. I want entire platoons who wander into the mountains because somebody bled on the map. I want tanks to get stuck turret-deep in mud flats and have to be rescued by helicopters while snipers pick off soldiers trying to keep their boots from being sucked off their feet in muck.
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Yoink

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120777 on: February 02, 2014, 03:56:18 am »

It's a shock, but I think I might have made some friends. :o

Last night was a good night.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120778 on: February 02, 2014, 06:34:39 am »

Quote from: Youtube comment, 3 weeks ago
Tupac aint dead he faked it hes coming back this year

For some reason, it warms my heart to see this every year. I bet it'll just be a religion one day.
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Graknorke

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Re: [ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ] WHY ARE WE YELLING? (Happy thread...?)
« Reply #120779 on: February 02, 2014, 06:49:20 am »

some other old humor you might have missed
I think I would be perfectly happy with a game that only involves shouting at politicians.
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