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Author Topic: [MILK] There were 12 eggs here what did you do with them? (Happy thread?!)  (Read 16309302 times)

MonkeyHead

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96840 on: January 04, 2013, 02:39:52 pm »

When I was an undergrad, I had a particularly eccentric Prof who lectured in various quantum topics who showed the class the mathematical proof for lower than 0K = infinite temperature pretty much on the fly, contstructing the algebra on the board for us to follow along. I remember being impressed but skeptical - you know, one of those Physics proofs that means pretty much nothing as its theoretical with little or no practical application. My understanding is that this is still highly theoretical, as in not yet done, but a mechanism for attaining such a stae has been mathematically described. Seems it took only about 15 years.

Descan

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96841 on: January 04, 2013, 02:56:26 pm »

A negative absolute value simply indicates that said absolute value is no longer absolute.

But Absolute Zero isn't arbitrary, it's when an atom has 0, nada, nilch, no energy at all!

Given that, I don't understand this at all. Then again, it's quantum, so nobody understands it.
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RedKing

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96842 on: January 04, 2013, 03:06:44 pm »

In my day, changing something from a low energy state to a high energy state was called raising its temperature. I don't know how that's lowering it now.

/notaphysicist
The part I didn't get (other than all of it) was the idea that if EVERYTHING in a system is high-energy, the handful of lower-energy atoms are the same as a handful of high-energy atoms in a low-energy system, only negative instead of positive. Besides, I thought temperature had less to do with energy and more with entropy -- the more "clumped together" the atoms are, the colder it is. Which they did do, but then somehow used magnets and lasers and other "how the fuck do they work" science-y thingies to make the atoms clump together MOAR. So it became colder than cold. But then they also say that the clumps of gas aren't attracted together by gravity, and in fact repel but in a stable fashion??  ???

 

It's really sounding more like a mathematical optical illusion.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96843 on: January 04, 2013, 03:17:01 pm »

Think of the applications! Like...
Really, REALLY cold beer?

I re-read the article a few times over and I still don't get it. Seems to me like they're saying they basically made something so cold it broke physics. Especially the bit about negative absolute temperature atoms being anti-gravity. Wouldn't a negative absolute value be imaginary??

Dear !!MATH!!: Plz stop breaking science. Kthxbai.

Aaaoooh.

Apparently they just misused the term temperature in the article; below 0 kelvin simply means that when more energy is added - the rate of entropy potentially goes down.
So basically fuck you thermodynamics.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96844 on: January 04, 2013, 03:18:48 pm »

It's Birling Day once again on Wednesday!

Get dressed you merry gentlemen
Let nothing you dismay
For it is Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Day
Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Day
It is Chri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-stmas Day
Christmas Day
It is Chri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-stmas Day
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

RedKing

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96845 on: January 04, 2013, 03:31:12 pm »

Okay, starting to get a little bit of a handle on this concept. Found this at a website from the UC-Riverside Math dept:

Quote
Step II: What is "Negative Temperature"?
Not all systems have the property that the entropy increases monotonically with energy.  In some cases, as energy is added to the system, the number of available microstates, or configurations, actually decreases for some range of energies.  For example, imagine an ideal "spin-system", a set of N atoms with spin 1/2 on a one-dimensional wire.  The atoms are not free to move from their positions on the wire.  The only degree of freedom allowed to them is spin-flip: the spin of a given atom can point up or down.  The total energy of the system, in a magnetic field of strength B, pointing down, is (N+ - N-)*uB, where u is the magnetic moment of each atom and N+ and N- are the number of atoms with spin up and down respectively.  Notice that with this definition, E is zero when half of the spins are up and half are down.  It is negative when the majority are down and positive when the majority are up.

The lowest possible energy state, all the spins pointing down, gives the system a total energy of -NuB, and temperature of absolute zero.  There is only one configuration of the system at this energy, i.e., all the spins must point down.  The entropy is the log of the number of microstates, so in this case is log(1) = 0.  If we now add a quantum of energy, size uB, to the system, one spin is allowed to flip up.  There are N possibilities, so the entropy is log(N).  If we add another quantum of energy, there are a total of N(N-1)/2 allowable configurations with two spins up.  The entropy is increasing quickly, and the temperature is rising as well.

However, for this system, the entropy does not go on increasing forever.  There is a maximum energy, +NuB, with all spins up.  At this maximal energy, there is again only one microstate, and the entropy is again zero.  If we remove one quantum of energy from the system, we allow one spin down.  At this energy there are N available microstates.  The entropy goes on increasing as the energy is lowered.  In fact the maximal entropy occurs for total energy zero, i.e., half of the spins up, half down.

So we have created a system where, as we add more and more energy, temperature starts off positive, approaches positive infinity as maximum entropy is approached, with half of all spins up.  After that, the temperature becomes negative infinite, coming down in magnitude toward zero, but always negative, as the energy increases toward maximum.  When the system has negative temperature, it is hotter than when it is has positive temperature.  If you take two copies of the system, one with positive and one with negative temperature, and put them in thermal contact, heat will flow from the negative-temperature system into the positive-temperature system.

So basically, something like a cosecant function? Increase in x (energy) leads to increase in y (entropy), up to a point where entropy is infinite, then you have a...a....whatchamacallit (dislocation?) where the graph goes to infinity in one direction, then reappears on the other side of the graph coming in from negative infinity and smoothing out towards a slope of 0 as you keep going. So it's basically stupid math tricks with cold gas. Could have some neat applications but the fact that you'd have to have all kinds of laser and magnets and shit to get and keep something that cold limits the practical applications.

Be interesting to see if this could produce that "negative energy matter" that NASA needs for an Alcubierre drive, though.

(I used to be a math person once, I swear.)
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Jopax

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96846 on: January 04, 2013, 03:51:12 pm »

So basically they did a pacman jump with temperature?

Well that can't be good.
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Aptus

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96847 on: January 04, 2013, 04:08:52 pm »

I just watched the 25th anniversary performance of Les Misérables at the O2 on youtube. I honest to armok had tears coming down my face atleast four times. Other than a pretty terrible Marius in the first parts of his appearance (he got a LOT better from 'Empty chairs at empty tables' on) it was bloody perfect. I wish I had seen it live. Jean Valjean, Javert, Fantine, Eponine... they were just perfect. The man portraying Enjolras almost had me trying to find the nearest barricade to stand on :p

Also, in the end, this happened.

Four times the Jean Valjean. Now tell me that isn't magical.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 04:45:13 pm by Aptus »
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DrPoo

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96848 on: January 04, 2013, 05:33:25 pm »

There may be a girl interested in me romantically, a friend of a friend, decent looking redhead, but she lives 300 miles away.

Redheads are rare, and as wonderful as diamonds.
Id murder a man to get with a redhead.
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Sirus

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96849 on: January 04, 2013, 05:34:14 pm »

Aren't you a woman now? O_o
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MonkeyHead

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96850 on: January 04, 2013, 05:35:07 pm »

Aren't you a woman now? O_o

Women can like women.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96851 on: January 04, 2013, 05:36:27 pm »

Redheads are rare, and as wonderful as diamonds.
Id murder a man to get with a redhead.
She'd probably want nothing to do with a murderer.
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Sirus

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96852 on: January 04, 2013, 05:37:41 pm »

Aren't you a woman now? O_o

Women can like women.
Yeah, but if DrPoo went from being a straight man to being a lesbian woman...I'm not entirely sure how much has changed  ???
Ah geez, my stupidity is showing...
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Jopax

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Re: [Tomoko~] Because I'm not popular, Ill have an emotion thread (Happy Thread)
« Reply #96853 on: January 04, 2013, 05:38:44 pm »

Well boobs obviously.
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