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Spoiler: RPG Ramblings (click to show/hide)

The One True broken as hell version, you mean.

I cannot argue with that, as evidenced by your example, and shenanigans that can lead to nearly invincible wizards in even Core Rules Only games. Nor can I argue that it tends to produce sensible characters, as evidenced by the fact that I'm building a 500 pound vampire whose preferred mode of locomotion is bouncing despite wearing hundreds of pounds of armor, and who careens from foe to foe like some sort of blood-draining pinball. Who is a psychic, and uses this power to become a 4000 pound vampire on occasion.

On the other hand, I've yet to encounter a system that's so well-suited to my preferred style of character building, which typically involves looking at what the system supports and drawing inspiration from that. Freeform systems don't suit me too well, because I have a tendency to face severe writer's block when trying to come up with a concept with no guidance, and I have a poor time deciding what's a reasonable quality or no, or what miscellaneous roleplaying decision for a use of my character's powers counts as an asspull*. It doesn't help that I tend to prefer playing Big Damn Hero-type characters, which makes "Does it make sense according to the known laws of physics" a really poor metric.

*As an example, I'd never have thought to have a character bathe in his own acid breath if I didn't know that I could have a character who could breathe acid, take a feat to make it persist, and be immune to acid, but it wound up being one of those little touches that contributed to the overall picture of a character that cares so little about other people's opinions that it bathes in what is literally its own vomit

I've never played an earlier edition, so I can't speak for that, but I can say that I find 4E to be too constrictive and simplistic, while the other systems I've tried are either too freeform for my tastes and (this is a purely opinion-based gripe) written in a pretentious tone I'm not a fan of (such as Unknown Armies), or too dense and difficult to navigate efficiently (GURPS).

Ah pity, if it were play by post I would have been interested in possibly playing but not sure if I have time for a real time game...

[RedWarrior0]

Spoiler: RPG Ramblings (click to show/hide)

The One True broken as hell version, you mean.

I cannot argue with that, as evidenced by your example, and shenanigans that can lead to nearly invincible wizards in even Core Rules Only games. Nor can I argue that it tends to produce sensible characters, as evidenced by the fact that I'm building a 500 pound vampire whose preferred mode of locomotion is bouncing despite wearing hundreds of pounds of armor, and who careens from foe to foe like some sort of blood-draining pinball. Who is a psychic, and uses this power to become a 4000 pound vampire on occasion.

On the other hand, I've yet to encounter a system that's so well-suited to my preferred style of character building, which typically involves looking at what the system supports and drawing inspiration from that. Freeform systems don't suit me too well, because I have a tendency to face severe writer's block when trying to come up with a concept with no guidance, and I have a poor time deciding what's a reasonable quality or no, or what miscellaneous roleplaying decision for a use of my character's powers counts as an asspull*. It doesn't help that I tend to prefer playing Big Damn Hero-type characters, which makes "Does it make sense according to the known laws of physics" a really poor metric.

*As an example, I'd never have thought to have a character bathe in his own acid breath if I didn't know that I could have a character who could breathe acid, take a feat to make it persist, and be immune to acid, but it wound up being one of those little touches that contributed to the overall picture of a character that cares so little about other people's opinions that it bathes in what is literally its own vomit

I've never played an earlier edition, so I can't speak for that, but I can say that I find 4E to be too constrictive and simplistic, while the other systems I've tried are either too freeform for my tastes and (this is a purely opinion-based gripe) written in a pretentious tone I'm not a fan of (such as Unknown Armies), or too dense and difficult to navigate efficiently (GURPS).

You at least taken a look at Legend yet?

[Criptfeind]

Legend has much the same issue as 4E. At least from my prospective.

I, for instance, want rules that actually cover what I can do. 4E and Legend seem to say: Hey. Don't bother with rules unless it is a fight. Which is not what I want. And even then it comes out bland compared to 3.5

Of course, 3.5 has its own issues. No balance. Harder to learn. More complex. But the simple thing is that these things do not personally bother me, whereas the issues with 4 and Legend do. Thus I like 3.5 more. Personal preference I say.

Of course that is only in theory. In reality the difference in my enjoyment between the two systems (never actually played a Legend game, would want to though.) are small enough to be fully overshadowed by other considerations such as who is running the game and who I am playing with.

[Cthulhu]

3e can be fun.  Right now I kind of feel like if I wanted to play 3e I'd play 2e.

My favorite form of bearding in 3e is the spiked-chain fighter with 18 dex, combat reflexes, and cleave (later great cleave).  Throw an enlarge person on him and he threatens entire rooms, gets four attacks of opportunity a round, and kills five or six enemies a turn.  Their turn.

Cat's grace as icing.

[Criptfeind]

Yeah. Spiked-chain is one of the symbol of things that make 3.5 bad. It is basically irredeemably bad.

[Loud Whispers]

I just ate cereal with coke. This combination was not meant for mortal palettes.

[JoshuaFH]

My internet browsing is still broke as shit, but having random broken pages has finally unturned something interesting. When trying to go to XKCD, the page broke and I got to see this message that was apparently hidden in the code somewhere:

We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.

I have no idea what it means.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

'tisn't hidden. It's down at the bottom of the page, below the content warning.

[JoshuaFH]

Heh, never noticed that small text before.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

I never noticed that there was a bottom of the page before. I've never had any reason to scroll down there.

[Bauglir]

Spoiler: RPG Ramblings (click to show/hide)

The One True broken as hell version, you mean.

I cannot argue with that, as evidenced by your example, and shenanigans that can lead to nearly invincible wizards in even Core Rules Only games. Nor can I argue that it tends to produce sensible characters, as evidenced by the fact that I'm building a 500 pound vampire whose preferred mode of locomotion is bouncing despite wearing hundreds of pounds of armor, and who careens from foe to foe like some sort of blood-draining pinball. Who is a psychic, and uses this power to become a 4000 pound vampire on occasion.

On the other hand, I've yet to encounter a system that's so well-suited to my preferred style of character building, which typically involves looking at what the system supports and drawing inspiration from that. Freeform systems don't suit me too well, because I have a tendency to face severe writer's block when trying to come up with a concept with no guidance, and I have a poor time deciding what's a reasonable quality or no, or what miscellaneous roleplaying decision for a use of my character's powers counts as an asspull*. It doesn't help that I tend to prefer playing Big Damn Hero-type characters, which makes "Does it make sense according to the known laws of physics" a really poor metric.

*As an example, I'd never have thought to have a character bathe in his own acid breath if I didn't know that I could have a character who could breathe acid, take a feat to make it persist, and be immune to acid, but it wound up being one of those little touches that contributed to the overall picture of a character that cares so little about other people's opinions that it bathes in what is literally its own vomit

I've never played an earlier edition, so I can't speak for that, but I can say that I find 4E to be too constrictive and simplistic, while the other systems I've tried are either too freeform for my tastes and (this is a purely opinion-based gripe) written in a pretentious tone I'm not a fan of (such as Unknown Armies), or too dense and difficult to navigate efficiently (GURPS).

You at least taken a look at Legend yet?

Been meaning to, haven't yet done it. Criptfeind echoes my thoughts on 4E, though, and on what really matters for having fun. No system other than FATAL that I've encountered is an automatic dealbreaker.

[dragnar]

Legend has much the same issue as 4E. At least from my prospective.

I, for instance, want rules that actually cover what I can do. 4E and Legend seem to say: Hey. Don't bother with rules unless it is a fight. Which is not what I want. And even then it comes out bland compared to 3.5

Of course, 3.5 has its own issues. No balance. Harder to learn. More complex. But the simple thing is that these things do not personally bother me, whereas the issues with 4 and Legend do. Thus I like 3.5 more. Personal preference I say.

Of course that is only in theory. In reality the difference in my enjoyment between the two systems (never actually played a Legend game, would want to though.) are small enough to be fully overshadowed by other considerations such as who is running the game and who I am playing with.

All of these facts are true. Except, that's not really a PROBLEM. DnD is pretty awful at anything outside combat, even in 3.5E(wizards are something of an exception). 4E essentially amounted to them ADMITTING this, and clearing away the clutter that pretending otherwise created. Legend is similar, except it was built from the ground up to be a balanced fighting system and NOTHING more. For a lot of people(myself included), that removes a lot of the appeal of RPGs, but it's a perfectly valid design choice. And for those who want what it does, it does it well.

[Remalle]

Spiked chain, you say?

[Criptfeind]

My subjective opinion on what I think is a problem is objectively wrong because your subjective opinion does not think it is a problem?

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Not a line I ever expected to read in a game