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[MaximumZero]

How would I even go about getting that kind of experience? I mean, would my lil indie p&p game even count?

[kaijyuu]

Does making and selling indie games count as "professional" experience, I wonder?

All the more reason I should build up my portfolio, regardless.

[Descan]

These made me happy.

Staaaand by me~

[Aqizzar]

How would I even go about getting that kind of experience? I mean, would my lil indie p&p game even count?

No.  What would count is being hired as a coder or something by a studio, and working there for ten years until you're either in charge of a department, or know enough guys and have enough money to go start a company.  Which you would then have to leave to take this job.

Videogames as an industry are still new enough that there's basically no such thing as a definable career track.  But it has been around long enough (more than a generation now), that it's at kind of a stage where you're not going to become famous if you're not already famous, and if you're not famous, fuck you.

Does making and selling indie games count as "professional" experience, I wonder?

Only if you're famous.  Like, front page roll of the Steam Store, at least.

[Phantom of The Library]

By who, Phantom~?

Twi.~

[kaijyuu]

It's a bit old (~2005), but one of my old gaming magazines had an interesting article from a game designer who laid out how he got to where he was. Not a famous guy by any means, but it's how he got his foot in the door of a real, established studio.

Started out as a journalist, and then decided to move on.
Applied everywhere, declined everywhere.
Got a tip from one of the interviewers that he should really have more than just passion and a few programming classes.
He then made a... quake 3? I think, map and attached it to his resume.
Applied again... got a job.


The company then went under but point is, that's how you gain "professional experience." Artists need portfolios. Game design is no exception.

I used to romhack and make warcraft 3 maps all the time, but I abandoned those specifically because I could not put them on a resume. Now I'm making my own game engine. Fan games currently rather than my own new IPs, but certainly something I can show off, and since the code is all mine, the indie scene is open to me too.

Now to get back to work on it. Grr, motivation, where are you?

[SalmonGod]

I wasn't even talking about professional experience as just something to tag on your resume.

I'm talking about having put in the practice to be able to produce stuff like this on a consistent schedule.

The thing is, while I'm 100% positive that I'm capable of producing work of that quality, I haven't put in the practice to be able to do so on a predictable schedule via a consistent workflow.  I need literally thousands of hours before I'll be able to do that.  The only way for me to get those thousands of hours is to actually get a job that allows me to dedicate 8 hours a day to my craft while supporting a family at the same time.

This is why starving artists are a thing.  They're the people who don't have a day job, because they know that day job is an obstacle to eventually getting an art job.

Edit:  Yeah, you've got the idea kaijyuu.  The entertainment industry doesn't really care that much about pre-established clout, from what I can tell.  They want you to show them what you can make.  It's all about the portfolio.  It needs to stand out as impressive, and it's almost just as important to show that you have a solid process that they can depend on to produce consistent and timely results.

[alway]

Here's a tip we learn at RIT: Apply anyway. "Required" doesn't mean something is required, just that they want good people, and will often give an interview even if you don't have one or two of the required traits. If you get lucky, you may still end up hired because you stand out in other aspects. Same goes for internships (which, by the way, are often paid internships). Even if they aren't advertising internship positions; even if they specifically say on their website 'do not apply for an internship,' apply anyway. Worst that happens is they throw away your resume. If you do stand out, most places are able to make room for you. The only exception to this is if you have a severe lack of free time for writing applications; in which case, focusing on those with positions you can fill obviously takes priority.

And yeah, make sure you have a great portfolio, as they really look at those in the industry. Be sure it's also one you can talk about; they will want to know why and how you did it in order to figure out what sort of person you are. Grades and transcripts matter very little, as the field is somewhat unestablished in the realm of universities.

[Max White]

Pretty simple rick and reward analysis. Just freaking apply for everything. And then some.

[Pnx]

So, I love stories.

I really love stories, I love grand epics, I love short stories, I especially adore the anecdotes people tell each other. One day I might just write up all the little anecdotes I've heard and put them into one place.

It's what made me want to be a writer in the first place, and I'm just remembering that now. There is just so much ranting I could do on the topic of stories. Stories are frigging awesome. They are the means by which we convey experiences to one another. That is kinda mind blowing to me.

Here's an anecdote I just heard for you guys, I edited and paraphrased a little, so this isn't exactly the original.

Some 25 or more years ago I had the opportunity to catalog a private library in England. It was a library that had been collected since the sixteenth century, there was a copy of the Magna Carta in there, and you could pick it up and read it, and you still could right now if they'd let you in.
It was marvelous and nobody had ever cataloged it. So I and a friend sat in, we cataloged all the books in it, and I decided I was going to be really cutting edge, so I went out and bought an Amstrad, it was a great 1982 or 3 computer that was available then. So I cataloged the library on this Amstrad, I have the disc here now.
...
It cannot be read. Not only can you not find a machine but it's now corrupted. So although the Magna Carta lasted 800 years, the disc didn't even last 20.

In fact to bail myself out of that I actually had a printed copy. The printed copy cost me a great deal because on the Amstrad there were two commands. There was a command P, and an option command P. The option command P got you to print, the command P stood for "purge".

Not only did it purge but the great thing was that to add humility it brought each slide up on the screen and dissolved it in front of your eyes, and I sat there and watched the entire library purge itself.

[SalmonGod]

That's a biting little story.

I share your passion for the nature of storytelling.  I think it's incredibly powerful.  In fact, a saying of mine that I've used on occasion for the last couple years goes:  storytelling is the evolution of culture is the evolution of society.

[alway]

So, I love stories.

I really love stories, and I love grand epics, I love short stories, I especially adore the anecdotes people tell each other. One day I might just write up all the little anecdotes I've heard and put them into one place.

It's what made me want to be a writer in the first place, and I'm just remembering that now. There is just so much ranting I could do on the topic of stories. Stories are frigging awesome. They are the means by which we convey experiences to one another. That is kinda mind blowing to me.
...snip...

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives
Hundreds of stories! Enjoy~
Assuming of course you haven't already.

Also weekly stories (though no archive I can find): http://feeds.themoth.org/themothpodcast

[Vector]

Yes, but on the other hand they're now doing serious hiring in the US (in my state~!), so knowing me I might apply next time just for the hell of it--to say that I once sent in resumes to a game company.

ahhhhhhh

Actually, I don't know if I'd even want to work on something like Metal Gear.  Maybe I'll just make some game on my own.  I think doing the coding for something like that would really ruin the resultant game for me, and I want to get to be excited from the outside more than I want to program the guts.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[MaximumZero]

You could always do one of two things: Mathematics for the physics engine, or help write the story. Create characters, write back stories, locations, etc.

[Solifuge]

Oh, and would anyone like a job?  His Twitter feed is buzzing with this stuff, seriously.  So exciting.

Why does the GDC have to be all the way out in California? I want to visit that booth! D:

I would absolutely love to be an underling in Game/Level Design or Mission Scripting for the project... I really dig their general design philosophy and attitude as a company. Pity I'm all the way on the other side of the country.