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[Arcvasti]

And Cinder used to be called Objective?

Oh, that explains a lot. The avatar change is what really threw me off.

[Tack]

The "click" moment with guitar or other coordination skills is not about knowledge. It's about muscle memory. It's more about hitting the point that you no longer need to think about what you are doing, you just do it. This is required because conscious decision making about which note to hit cannot keep up with the speed at which you must hit notes.

This goes a long way towards explaining how people can play guitar and sing without being wizards.

[Spehss _]

The "click" moment with guitar or other coordination skills is not about knowledge. It's about muscle memory. It's more about hitting the point that you no longer need to think about what you are doing, you just do it. This is required because conscious decision making about which note to hit cannot keep up with the speed at which you must hit notes.

This goes a long way towards explaining how people can play guitar and sing without being wizards.

Being a wizard probably helps though.

[Tack]

[Arx]

The "click" moment with guitar or other coordination skills is not about knowledge. It's about muscle memory. It's more about hitting the point that you no longer need to think about what you are doing, you just do it. This is required because conscious decision making about which note to hit cannot keep up with the speed at which you must hit notes.

Quote

    There is no hypothetical wall where you can't understand what you're doing until you get past the wall.

Because it's not about understanding what you're doing. I can fully understand what I'm supposed to do to pull off an extremely complex arpeggio, but that doesn't mean that I can do it. And there are plenty of examples where I've heard guitarist friends pull off some mad shit, and you ask them how they did it, and they kind of blank out and are not actually sure. Trying to consciously replicate what they do by instinct actually hinders performance.

Maybe guitar is different to flute for this, but there isn't a muscle memory "click" either. :v

Your muscle memory just gets increasingly good. I can play without having to think about it, but I'll make quite a few mistakes and stuff. I've yet to find a point of sudden increased skill, and I've been playing for years.

There's also point where you are able to play things that sound nice in a nice-sounding way, but it doesn't happen instantly.

[scrdest]

The "click" moment with guitar or other coordination skills is not about knowledge. It's about muscle memory. It's more about hitting the point that you no longer need to think about what you are doing, you just do it. This is required because conscious decision making about which note to hit cannot keep up with the speed at which you must hit notes.

There is no hypothetical wall where you can't understand what you're doing until you get past the wall.

Because it's not about understanding what you're doing. I can fully understand what I'm supposed to do to pull off an extremely complex arpeggio, but that doesn't mean that I can do it. And there are plenty of examples where I've heard guitarist friends pull off some mad shit, and you ask them how they did it, and they kind of blank out and are not actually sure. Trying to consciously replicate what they do by instinct actually hinders performance.

Oh, well yeah. Muscle memory is a big part of it, but that just comes from regularly practicing. Practice a technique or song enough and you'll get it eventually. It helps to know what you should be practicing and why, or why a song is played like it is, or how the position of the fingers on the strings on the frets can go most efficiently from note to note and why, etc. When actually playing, you want to rely on muscle memory.

I disagree. Pure 'hammered-in' fingering is... not good. It gets you over a hard passage, but it's cheated - you're bypassing your brain, essentially, and that's a bad thing - you don't learn the underlying idea, you just hard-wire a certain set of motions in a certain position; if you try to play the same thing in a different way (same notes, just in other positions) your brain and your fingers are trying to do different things at the same time - and like you said yourself, you *cannot* reliably reproduce it, because the act of trying to do it consciously fucks it up. Mind you - this is trying to run on pure muscle memory, not playing something a couple times to get the idea and figure out FINGARS WAT DO.

If you practice and learn theory you actually will see your processing speed get better if you play in real time with the song - you will hit more and more notes on time and will feel less overwhelmed. It's subtle, because it doesn't feel different to you - you will just feel like you have more time between the notes. One of the weirdest things I've ever felt is when in the middle of playing, that processing overdrive shut down for me - I felt as if the song sped up but the tempo didn't change, I just felt like I can't catch up with the song.

On a tangential note, according to my Biophysics and Bioacoustics (two courses) professor, there are notable physical changes in the brains of musically trained people - not just stuff like sending some signals to analytical parts of the brain, but things like all-round lower threshold for stimulation.

[Spehss _]

I was trying to say that muscle memory is important, but it's also important to understand music theory and how the guitar works and stuff besides just practicing for the sake of memorizing muscle memory.

Like, when I play, there's what my hands are doing, that's muscle memory and what's being done now, which I'm not thinking about. I think about what comes next and how to transition from where I'm at now to where I need to be.

Like, if I'm playing an open E on the sixth string, and the next note is a G on the third fret of the sixth string, and I'm transitioning from open E to fretted G, I'm not thinking about where the G is in relation to E because I'm already doing it. If the next note is A, I have the option of moving to 5th fret 6th string, or playing an open 5th string for A, and that would be what I'm thinking of while playing E to G. If there's a predominant way that I transitioned from G to A when practicing, then I'd most likely choose that one from muscle memory, but I could choose an alternate method if I wanted to improvise a little and, say, play some of the song solely on the 6th string. So it's a mix of playing by muscle memory and thinking what to do next that would fit in the song.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Tack]

I think the point attempted to get across was muscle memory from chord to chord. Like making a macro so that your fingers automatically do 'this' when your brain thinks 'E'.

[Spehss _]

I think the point attempted to get across was muscle memory from chord to chord. Like making a macro so that your fingers automatically do 'this' when your brain thinks 'E'.

Basically. Except also knowing why the macro is what is is and how to make different macros that can also get 'E'.

[Putnam]

Yo I played jazz guitar

you have to learn new chords for basically every song, at least until you have every voicing of a 7+b9 chord down

[itisnotlogical]

Apparently, the coffee shop that's being built by the college is going to belong to the guy that runs the sci-fi club on campus. I'm tight with him, so if everything works out on his end then I should have a job there come January. NO MORE MCDONALD'S!!!

[Tack]

Time to get yo barista training underway.
Peeps are crazy about they coffee.

[RedKing]

I hope he makes it a sci-fi themed coffee shop called Java the Hutt.

[Bauglir]

Disney would sue his ass. Have to leave it at Java the Hut, for plausible deniability.