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[webadict]

As much of a point as you make...

No, dakarian. You're trying to pull everything out from nowhere, aren't you? I'm pretty sure I'd know if someone were scum, and I'm just not feeling Cheeetar being scum. Although, I must admit, he is very scummy in demeanor. It's a curse, isn't it? I'm pretty if Cheeetar were scum, I'd be dead right now. Or someone else besides Alexhans. However, what's being played right now is the "List Game." I've made a giant list of people to be scum and two of them have died being town. That's fine. I figured that would happen. However, it's a game the scum pay to make me rethink myself. Nope. Not gonna happen. That just means I kill EVERYONE on the list. Because in all likelihood, the rest are scum.

So, what do you say to that?

[Cheeetar]

The reasoning:

Day 1, Cheeetar was pushing for Alex's death in lock step with when I started on Alex.  Once I stopped my own push for Alex and some pressure is put on Cheeetar, he switched to Person.  Eventually, Alex complains about Cheeetar being passive and Cheeetar says:

I'm being too mild now? After I was pushing for a lynch of both you and Mr. Person, I've unvoted and now you're convinced I'm too mild?

Bold = mine

The phrase is odd here for a few reasons.

1. It attempts to show that he's aggressive.. alone that's not weird BUT

2. He says that he stopped voting.  That part contradicts the aggression for one thing.  For the other it was wrong, since he was still voting for Person at the time (he unvoted when I called him on it). 

Note that he stays unvoting until the end of the day.  As such, he didn't unvote the two because someone else looked worse, nor did he unvote to bandwagon.  Since he went into Day 2 charging headlong into Alex-as-scum he couldn't feel that Alex was ok.



Another thing that bugs me.. he pushed hard for Alex because Alex wouldn't hammer Person.  He pushed hard for Person because he felt he was scum.  HOWEVER, when asked who was scum if Person flipped town Cheeetar chose me.

The reason? Because I pushed for Person.


When asked why I would be scum for that when he was pushing for Person long after I stopped, he said "Because I KNOW I'm town".



All of that just sits funny with me.

I was voting for him, being agressive, but lots of people told me to unvote. As I was pretty sure I could not get Alexhans lynched at that time, I unvoted. If I pushed for his lynch then, I would just be lynched, and I would lose my opportunity to play this game and get some scum. So, I waited until I could lynch Alexhans later, and focused on the rest of the game (although I did not make much progress).

I've explained the last point very clearly. I know I am not town, but I know I just lynched a town by accident. I reason that I am dumb. Not everybody else is dumb. So, some of the people pushing for the lynch would be mafia, right? Because mafia want town dead. So, the person pushing for Mr. Persons lynch, Dakarian, would probably be mafia because he was pushing for a towns lynch.

Also: I was certain that Alex was scum. I find it very strange that he isn't.

[Cheeetar]

And by 'I know I am not town' I mean 'I know I am town'.

[dakarian]

What you say on Cheeetar makes sense, though he has 3 other people to temper his wish to kill web.  I'd like to hear more from him before I leave him alone.  There's also one more factor:  One of the PRs is effectively a Doctor (if they target someone about to die, they cause the killer to investigate instead).  As such, it makes sense for that person to watch you like a hawk.  Scum would be MAD to try to target you.

As for your theory on me, I'll give this idea to you:  Are you SURE chaoticjosh is scum.. I mean SURE.


You know what I'll claim.. I claim town of course.  However, if I die town you'll probably still aim for josh.  That's where the problem begins.  There's 7 town and 3 scum right now.  If two mislynches occur, it'll be 7-2-2=3 town/ 3 scum.. game over.

There's the problem.  If you KNOW that josh is scum, I'll let you lynch me to finish off josh.  If you aren't sure then I don't want a town to die with me just because of a list that the mafia can easily manipulate.

So I place it to you.  If you HONESTLY believe Josh is scum.. large enough to risk the entire game over, then go ahead and off me.  If you have ANY doubt to him then I beg you to at least give us time to find the other three mafia beforehand.

[JoshuaFH]

I don't know about Dakarian Webadict, despite my pressuring of him yesterday, I still get plenty of town tells from him. I'm assured even more of his towniness with Alex's flip, as his spontaneous, thought-out defense of him day 1 seems more justified. While I'm pretty sure this is my first game with him, I think a scum Dakarian wouldn't have jumped in to prevent a town Alex from lynching himself, and instead would have just let things take their course.

Mr.Person is also more likely town, since it's now revealed that Alex didn't have an ulterior motive in protecting him. Does not clear him completely though, as the very real chance of Alex being wrong is still there.

Talking about that though... ToonyMan.

ToonyMan, your contributions have dropped considerably. While we're pretty used to your fluffy zaniness, you posted only once last day, and have yet to contribute much today, despite posting 3 times.

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll talk other people's posts in a while.

[ToonyMan]

Scum talk is scummy.

Dakarian.  I ain't afraid of no scare tactic.


FAKE-EDIT:

I don't know about Dakarian Webadict, despite my pressuring of him yesterday, I still get plenty of town tells from him. I'm assured even more of his towniness with Alex's flip, as his spontaneous, thought-out defense of him day 1 seems more justified. While I'm pretty sure this is my first game with him, I think a scum Dakarian wouldn't have jumped in to prevent a town Alex from lynching himself, and instead would have just let things take their course.

Mr.Person is also more likely town, since it's now revealed that Alex didn't have an ulterior motive in protecting him. Does not clear him completely though, as the very real chance of Alex being wrong is still there.

Talking about that though... ToonyMan.

ToonyMan, your contributions have dropped considerably. While we're pretty used to your fluffy zaniness, you posted only once last day, and have yet to contribute much today, despite posting 3 times.

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll talk other people's posts in a while.

I'M CONTRIBUTING RIGHT NOW.

This is the three last scum,
Sir Josh
Dakarian
Cheeetar

[Cheeetar]

No, Toony, no it isn't. Atleast, I'm not.

[Cheeetar]

Also, Josh: If you're aiming for lurkers, why don't you check out Boksi?

[dakarian]

I was voting for him, being agressive, but lots of people told me to unvote.

Proof or it didn't happen.  All I saw was Alex attacking you and me wondering why you dodged the question.

As I was pretty sure I could not get Alexhans lynched at that time, I unvoted. If I pushed for his lynch then, I would just be lynched, and I would lose my opportunity to play this game and get some scum. So, I waited until I could lynch Alexhans later, and focused on the rest of the game (although I did not make much progress).

Funny.. I heard the "I didn't want to do it but I was pressured to.  They would've lynched me otherwise."

That person turned out to be mafia. 


You didn't try to stop the bandwagon (I stopped a good number of them in Day 1.. I wasn't attacked for it).  You didn't try to defend the accused if you felt they were town.  You didn't question/accuse that person or join to finish the lynch.  You felt in your heart that someone was scum..

And you let the person you truly TRULY felt was scum just to save your own hide?  Even though dying would've put some credit to your words and help push someone MANY PEOPLE wanted dead to the lynch to follow you?

I've explained the last point very clearly. I know I am not town

, but I know I just lynched a town by accident. I reason that I am dumb. Not everybody else is dumb. So, some of the people pushing for the lynch would be mafia, right? Because mafia want town dead. So, the person pushing for Mr. Persons lynch, Dakarian, would probably be mafia because he was pushing for a towns lynch.

Web's list had two now-confirmed townies in it.  What is he, dumb or mafia?

[dakarian]

@ Toony

My 'scare tactic' was ONLY for web who seems deadset towards finishing his list.  That means Josh dies after me no matter my flip.

If his only reasoning is to continue the list no matter what, then we are gambling on if josh and me are town.  If we both are, the game ends.

I've learned my lesson from Beginner 1.  Gambles set to multiple days are far too dangerous.  It's pro-town to follow through with them, but..well.  As said before, I just about cost everyone the game with mine.

As for YOUR accusation of me, I ask you, what makes me scummy?  I'd like to face and defend against my accusations.  It also means I have time to scumhunt more.

[Cheeetar]

Alex had already hammered a town and gotten away with it, why would my being lynched have swayed opinion in any way? If I turned up town, he'd say 'it was his fault for looking so scummy'.

[dakarian]

Alex was following me when he hammered Red.  His resistance to hammer nearly got him killed.

A good few people, including Web and Toony, was ready to kill him after web removed his proven scum.  If Person had evidence showing he was scum it would reignite my own suspicions over Alex.  Alex was never lynched because Alex was nightkilled, simply put.

Meanwhile, you dodged an issue:  you claimed that people pushed you to unvote.  WHO.. what posts?  Show me because I missed it.

[Cheeetar]

Some of this is not directed at me, but is people unvoting and generally saying that they no longer fully believe Alexhans is scum. I edited out most portions, but if you want the full post just click the link in the 'Quote from' section.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alright, just because of this, I went back and looked through your posts. And you know what? You pretty much define active lurking and being scummy. The ONLY thing you've done ALL GAME is said and resaid, over and over, that because I think Alexhans is town and he think I'm town, we must both be scum. Nevermind the fact that you and Cheeetar are buddying up, no no no. Nevermind that we've both been pretty non-lurky, forget that shit. You know everybody else in the game? Ignore them, gotta kill that MrPerson+Alexhans team! Wanna know what's fishy? The way you were goading Alexhans into day killing me. Where's that enthusiasm now? Why weren't you yelling for Archangel to be day killed?

If everyone doesn't UNVOTE ALEXHANS RIGHT NOW I WILL CUT YOUR THROATS OPEN AND SPLATTER YOUR GUTS ALL OVER YOUR HOUSE AND VARIOUS PORTIONS OF YOUR YARD, YOU STUPID MORONS!

OH MY GOD! Everything Mr.Person says is likely true. I have no idea what you morons are doing...

Mr.Person, what happened while I was gone?

1) I think Alexhans and Mr.Person are town. There are a lot of insults going around, but they've made good points and it just doesn't seem likely that they're both scum working together. And, as has been pointed out a lot, it makes no sense for Alex to be scum and not Mr.Person.

Btw, I'm opting for Cheeetar for the lynch, though that's not solid yet since I'm still questioning him. 

If not Cheeetar, then Panda.   What's with the "hmm, maybe web really IS scum and Leaf is messing with us?  Oh, just kidding."  Nothing like sewing the worst kind of chaos by making the town outguess the mod.

I took alittle time to step back and reread some more, and I have to say, as much as I don't like Alex's attitude, and alot of his reasoning that goes along the lines of "Oh, well, I meant something else!", I may have been jumpy and it might be advantageous to not rush here, and he does sound sincere.

Unvote

[webadict]

What you say on Cheeetar makes sense, though he has 3 other people to temper his wish to kill web.  I'd like to hear more from him before I leave him alone.  There's also one more factor:  One of the PRs is effectively a Doctor (if they target someone about to die, they cause the killer to investigate instead).  As such, it makes sense for that person to watch you like a hawk.  Scum would be MAD to try to target you.

As for your theory on me, I'll give this idea to you:  Are you SURE chaoticjosh is scum.. I mean SURE.


You know what I'll claim.. I claim town of course.  However, if I die town you'll probably still aim for josh.  That's where the problem begins.  There's 7 town and 3 scum right now.  If two mislynches occur, it'll be 7-2-2=3 town/ 3 scum.. game over.

There's the problem.  If you KNOW that josh is scum, I'll let you lynch me to finish off josh.  If you aren't sure then I don't want a town to die with me just because of a list that the mafia can easily manipulate.

So I place it to you.  If you HONESTLY believe Josh is scum.. large enough to risk the entire game over, then go ahead and off me.  If you have ANY doubt to him then I beg you to at least give us time to find the other three mafia beforehand.

While what you say makes sense except... I don't need a Doctor. The fact that I'm likely to be protected by a Doctor is, in itself, protection. Come on. You don't know what I know. Only scum would be worried about the Doctor.

And no, I'm NOT sure about chaoticjosh. I'm only sure about now. My opinion can switch about him. However, I'm pretty sure Diakron is scum as well. But one at a time.

You're not SAYING you're town. That's a scum tell. You're simply "implying" you're town. Most town say I'm town. You say, "If you lynch me, you'll lynch a town." You never directly say it. Except with that whole claim town of course. You just don't seem the same right now. Ya know?

Some of this is not directed at me, but is people unvoting and generally saying that they no longer fully believe Alexhans is scum. I edited out most portions, but if you want the full post just click the link in the 'Quote from' section.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alright, just because of this, I went back and looked through your posts. And you know what? You pretty much define active lurking and being scummy. The ONLY thing you've done ALL GAME is said and resaid, over and over, that because I think Alexhans is town and he think I'm town, we must both be scum. Nevermind the fact that you and Cheeetar are buddying up, no no no. Nevermind that we've both been pretty non-lurky, forget that shit. You know everybody else in the game? Ignore them, gotta kill that MrPerson+Alexhans team! Wanna know what's fishy? The way you were goading Alexhans into day killing me. Where's that enthusiasm now? Why weren't you yelling for Archangel to be day killed?

If everyone doesn't UNVOTE ALEXHANS RIGHT NOW I WILL CUT YOUR THROATS OPEN AND SPLATTER YOUR GUTS ALL OVER YOUR HOUSE AND VARIOUS PORTIONS OF YOUR YARD, YOU STUPID MORONS!

OH MY GOD! Everything Mr.Person says is likely true. I have no idea what you morons are doing...

Mr.Person, what happened while I was gone?

1) I think Alexhans and Mr.Person are town. There are a lot of insults going around, but they've made good points and it just doesn't seem likely that they're both scum working together. And, as has been pointed out a lot, it makes no sense for Alex to be scum and not Mr.Person.

Btw, I'm opting for Cheeetar for the lynch, though that's not solid yet since I'm still questioning him. 

If not Cheeetar, then Panda.   What's with the "hmm, maybe web really IS scum and Leaf is messing with us?  Oh, just kidding."  Nothing like sewing the worst kind of chaos by making the town outguess the mod.

I took alittle time to step back and reread some more, and I have to say, as much as I don't like Alex's attitude, and alot of his reasoning that goes along the lines of "Oh, well, I meant something else!", I may have been jumpy and it might be advantageous to not rush here, and he does sound sincere.

Unvote

Yes. I made you.

[dakarian]

You aren't giving me much to work with, web, as far as defense goes.  If there was any "you are scum because..." I could debate or argue or explain my reasoning. 

But you said "I'm killing you because the scum want me to stop killing off of this list."  What am I supposed to say, "Don't kill me, I'm town"?  I know I wouldn't stand by that.

I focused on Josh because I don't want two quicklynches to end the game.  If Josh was scum then I'm willing to die to kill him.  I was slightly hoping you had some strong proof on Josh that you were still hiding.  It sounds like you aren't.

"I am town".  I said it.  I AM town.  However, only a fool would accept that: I know I wouldn't. 

What I would RATHER do is actually hear your reasons.  WHY am I scum?  What have I done that you are questioning now?  Give me those reasons and I'll say more than empty words like 'I am town."  I will PROVE I'm town.  Don't just use my words now.  You put me on that list long before Day 3.  You have reasons to want me dead.  I want them!

If you don't want to say them, or can't say them and keep voting, then there's nothing for me to say.  Instead, I'll just focus on the others and help the town find the rest of the scum so long as I'm still alive. 


Btw, about the 'doctor' comment, you used the idea that others, like Cheeetar, would've tried to kill you while I wouldn't.  I said a good reason why a team of 3 mafia with someone like Cheeetar would still not kill you: they fear the doctor.  I'm not the only one that would avoid that.  That's why I brought him up.  Now, why would someone like me as town NOT mention him when going into "why Webaddict isn't dead" theories?