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[ToonyMan]

So Toon, I take it your entire accusation of Boksi is that he's lurking?

Scum logic.

[ToonyMan]

As in, he's using scum logic and....let me just take this quote out again:

Boksi - Number three on my scum list.  Acting INSANELY suspicious.  Look at this quote!!:

Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.

WUT

[JoshuaFH]

Ah, I see, might I ask what "scum logic" you're talking about? Are you referring to Arch's post about Boksi?

[ToonyMan]

Read what I just posted, please read it.  Here's another:

But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?

That's his reason.  He can't answer why he bandwagon'd.  You know why?  No reason.  Then he talks about how he doesn't pay attention like "you guys".  Lurker excuse.

[JoshuaFH]

Ah, I suppose that is a good reason, but then again, it's also a very convenient reason.

I got a funny feeling...

What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:

It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?

If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.

Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.

Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.

That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...

That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?

[Mr.Person]

The reason I backed off Pandarsenic is because: He wasn't lurking, the whole caps thing isn't that big and he was probably just messing around and the role mis-write, while a conscious decision, was related to the role description he was given.

The reason I'm voting for you is because you said I shouldn't back off from suspicion and should go through with them despite not voting for me while you think I am scum ('Only scum would back away from people'), which is hypocritical of you, and also because of the WIFOM about your lynch.

You do realize it's possible to think more than one person is scum, right? That's what FoS's are for, as well as asking questions. I think Archangel is scum, I'm pretty much certain of that. ToonyMan is possibly scum, as are you, since you seem to only be reading my posts to pick them apart. This is fine, except you aren't even talking about anybody else (except Pandarsenic). Even if I was scum, you would still have to go find the rest of the scum team. Why don't you go look for them? In other words, who do you think is scum?

Also, I never said "Only scum would back away from people" I said "Only scum would back away from somebody who is no longer an easy lynch". In any case, lemme add a qualifier to that, but first, another question. I promise I'll explain my reasoning, just answer this last one, Cheeetar. Do you think Pandarsenic is town or do you think he's scum?

I think Pandarsenic is town for now, as that is my default assumption for someone until they have been suspicious enough. My previous points were pointed out as wrong and I now agree that they were. I think Alexhans is scum at the moment, as he hammered someone while giving them little chance to defend themself, and has been very abrasive to anyone who questions him. I also think you are scum, because of the possibility of you being scum buddies with Alexhans (yes I am aware that it would be stupid for scum to do this. However, that does not mean it is not true) and your previous WIFOM about your death.

That is the correct answer. Scum probably would of said something like "I think he's town, but he might still be scum, I'm not sure" or "His response is pretty scummy, so I'll think about it". The next thing I would of done in a case like that is ask why you unvoted Pandarsenic if you still think he could be scum, to which you would respond with "Because I think he's town, I'm just not sure 100%" (This would be a null tell) or "Because I don't really know which side he's on" (This would be super-scummy, "Why'd you unvote him if you don't really know? Why didn't you press the issue to death?)

Basically, I was trying to find out if you unvoted him because he was no longer an easy lynch. I'm fairly satisfied that you weren't, and we've all learned a good bit of info. For instance, you trust Pandarsenic to be town (at the moment). I'm going to move you up to neutral.

I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.

Blarg, once again, I'm too trusting. I want to hear what ToonyMan has to say, since he's one of the few people I really just don't trust.

Funfact: I made a typo of "few" as "fear" so that would leave the sentence as  "I want to hear what ToonyMan has to say, since he's one of the fear people I really just don't trust." Sometimes I wish I didn't put so much stock in Freudian slips.

[dakarian]

Welcome back into the fold Arc.  The analysis you've done is better now, but I do note when that occured.  My @everyone post is an attempt as a final verdict.  By then, I've put you on the top of the 'who needs to die' list.  It's very bad when I get to that state.

A townie that finally woke up or a mafia that's desperately attempting to appease me?  That's what I have to decide now, for now, I lean towards the latter.

What to say to me?  I didn't offer anything for you to say that will help you recover.  What can you do?  What any townie should do: a PROPER analysis combined with scumhunting.  If you do well, and you still die, then your posts will have more weight.  If your investigation finds a scum, but your 'scumminess' makes you look bad, then if you die, your words will carry and the scum will be pushed at and killed.  When you are on the brink of death, taking a scum with you is one of the best things you can do, far better than playing it safe just to stay alive.  Don't go "ok, kill me".  Don't hyperdefend yourself all day.  Don't randomly point fingers.  Find the scum we so desperately need, NOW.

Of course, that's playing the 'if you are town' card.  If you are mafia, then at this point, there's no hope for you.  You can't scumhunt since your flip will ruin your words.  You can't try to protect or accuse anyone because all you will do is give us more tools.  Silence is probably your best option to hold what info you have left. 

I don't think you are just some townie that's been sleeping so far.  I believe you're a mafia stuck on the wall.  I'm not overconfident to say "YOU ARE 100% SCUM", but I can't see you as town.  If you are, then what I wrote above is how I, when I'm town, approach my death: accept that I will probably die, and work hard to make what's left of my life count.   I believe, though, that you will read this and go "Let myself die?  I can't do that!!"  I'll let you decide what to do but, as mafia, none of this will help you beyond looking back and seeing how you can prevent this, next game.

[dakarian]

I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.

Mind if I poke at two things?

1. What made you switch Alexhans from trusted to probably?  It sounds like you spotted something you don't like.  Furthermore, why did that 'something' not drop him down to neutral? 

2. Most of us are neutral but you have only a few people you don't trust?  So you trust neutrals?

[Alexhans]

sigh... Lots and lots of nothing.  Lots of ignoring arguments.  Lots of "people is scum because they are agressive, abrasive, condescending, whatever"...

Scum is not agressive... Scum is afraid... Remember that.  And don't give me the WIFOM crap.  This is statystical analysys from thousands of games.  Scum wants to BLEND in.  NOT stand out.  It's how it is.  If you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

Having said that... How long till deadline?  I have a lot of things to do today.

What's the current votecount?

I'm currently debating between killing one of Boksi, RedWarrior or brothernature.  Archangel needs to keep defending himself and explaining his reasons but we musn't forget about the others.

[Leafsnail]

We play 3 weekdays per dayphase, so the deadline is in approximately 2 RL days.

"Gimme an m!"
"M!"
"Gimme an r!"
"R!"
"Gimme an .!  Somehow..."
Wait, so the computer is really going to try and give a votecount like this?  For some reason, however, you are prepared for this, and have some pens and paper ready to write down the results of the chanting.

Mr.Person: Diakron, Archangel, Boksi, Cheeetar
Boksi: Mephansteras, ToonyMan
Archangel: Dakarian, Alexhans, Pandarsenic, webadict, RedWarrior0, Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Zaithemaster
ToonyMan: chaoticjosh

This deja vu is starting to do your head in.  You wish it would actually tell you something helpful rather than just modifying the flavour text slightly.

[RedWarrior0]

Okay. I'll unvote.

Alex, why were you so sure that Mr.Person was town earlier? Scumbuddies with him, perhaps?

More later. I'm currently getting kicked off the computer.

[Alexhans]

Yes.  RedWarrior... and with you too?  Did you forget about our quicktopic or something?     I AM pretty sure Mr.Person is town. 

Why are you unvoting Archangel?  Why did you vote him in the first place?  Why didn't you mention you had any suspicions about me being with Mr.Person before?

"More later"?  I hope there's something else than this poor attempt to copycat others so you look like scumhunting.

[Mr.Person]

I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.

Mind if I poke at two things?

1. What made you switch Alexhans from trusted to probably?  It sounds like you spotted something you don't like.  Furthermore, why did that 'something' not drop him down to neutral? 

2. Most of us are neutral but you have only a few people you don't trust?  So you trust neutrals?

1. Lack of WoT's, mostly, but he's also no longer quite as aggressive. I also have this sneaky suspicion he's trying to buddy up with me, which I don't really want. However, since I know for a fact that this

2. Neutral is the default level. Most of you guys are actually lower. If I trust someone, you can be sure I think they're town, at least probably.

[ToonyMan]

Ah, I suppose that is a good reason, but then again, it's also a very convenient reason.

I got a funny feeling...

What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:

It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?

If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.

Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.

Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.

That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...

That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?

Alexhans and Mr.Person are scum, don't worry about that.  I just need to see about the third one.  TOO BAD NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO CARE.  Dakarian makes a good point, after that Alexhans deal thing the both of them tried to shush it out.

[JoshuaFH]

sigh... Lots and lots of nothing.  Lots of ignoring arguments.  Lots of "people is scum because they are agressive, abrasive, condescending, whatever"...

Scum is not agressive... Scum is afraid... Remember that.  And don't give me the WIFOM crap.  This is statystical analysys from thousands of games.  Scum wants to BLEND in.  NOT stand out.  It's how it is.  If you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

So Alex, did something provoke this little outburst? It doesn't seem to correspond with any recent posts.

Ah, I suppose that is a good reason, but then again, it's also a very convenient reason.

I got a funny feeling...

What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:

It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?

If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.

Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.

Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.

That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...

That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?

Alexhans and Mr.Person are scum, don't worry about that.  I just need to see about the third one.  TOO BAD NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO CARE.  Dakarian makes a good point, after that Alexhans deal thing the both of them tried to shush it out.

The nonchalant response, I see. Nothing I can really do about that, afterall, you can just insist it was just a coincidence afterall.

Just know this however Toon, when I made that post saying that MP's hammer would greatly effect my suspicions, I wasn't just referring to Alex, I was talking about everyone involved. Don't think I didn't notice you using my argument against Alex to attack MP with no effort on your part, because I've been keeping my eye on you since then.