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[Alexhans]

WARNING:  Reading this might stain you sarcasm.

I'm always a little uneasy when nobody is defending someone, but it could be a bus.

nodoby is defending someone?  What's that supposed to mean?  What could be a bus?  You're being extremely cryptic here...

Also: If Mr. Person is scum I'd say you were too. It might seem too obvious but I still think you would be scum if Person is.

You still have SO MUCH to learn... Pairing me and Mr.Person right now would be GREATLY underestimating our intelligence.  I mean GREATLY.  If I was in a scumteam with Mr.Person I wouldn't linked myself in such a way.  You can be sure of it.  Not on day 1 with so many people who can be as naive as you to think that if someone defends other person then they must be scum together... 

If you wanted to accuse one of us buddying would be much more of an argument.  Buddying is when scum tries to gain the trust of a townie by: expressing trust in him, agreeing with him, siding with him, whatever...

But you're all seem too shortsighted to think this kind of things... You prefer to believe in a world where mafia is active and defend each other in the open for everyone else to see...

Why don't we play tic-tac-toe instead?  So everyone can understand how the game really goes.
-----------------------------

It started off with Dakarion gaving him a very slight poke, where he then became hostile. It's something he could have shrugged off very easily, but I think he felt the NEED to dispel suspicion, which is an urge I feel is much more present in scum than townies. Also note as he gets more hostile with each post, throwing more than one insult in the process.

Don't Webadict and me do the same a lot?  It's called Town Frustration.  When someone attacks me with a stupid argument I feel the need to debate every single point to set things straight.  It doesnt have to do with defending myself but to completely destroy their crappy argument (or at least give them my view of things).

Remember one thing.  Scum usually tries to be friendly to everyone so no one grudge-attacks Them.  Townies don't feel that way but they do often think, given the fact that they know their own innocence, that anyone who attacks them is scum setting them up.

Townie fights to death are common.  Just look at Kingmakers Web vs Mr.Person (wich ended with both dead) or, in this game, me against web (Wich ended with webadict dead ).

It may just be that we're seeing things differently. I see him as scum since he's unduly aggressive and argumentative, while you see him as town because of it. Do I have that right?

Pretty much.  Yeah.  Mr.Person scum is so much more passive agressive... Mild and cautious when he doesn't want to be spotted and attacking from the sidelines when he can safely do so.

[dakarian]

Powerful WOT is powerful.

This is why I asked for your reasons for thinking Person is town.  Note that you are using meta game information from IRC that me and many others don't have.  Without that, it looks like Person is a hyperactive scum that flings insults once accused.  If he's town, though, he's doing the very thing you dislike-jumping on the active folks-while doing what I don't like-getting in the way of the scumhunt. 

I'll need to do a new scan on Person to try to get a new read on him.


As for lurkers, there's one BIG reason why I disrupted your lurker hate: you have a daykill and already showed that you get trigger happy with it.  You may be thinking of trying to dump it early so the scum won't steal it from you.  I'm thinking it's a 'lynch' we can use on someone truely suspicious.  You didn't give anyone the chance to say anything for or against Webadict.  How would you feel if I did the same for Person: killing him off with a 1 shot the SECOND the day reset before you could give your WOT?  I don't like quick kills like that.

Lastly, you've seen games die due to the lack of lurker hunting.  I've seen games die DUE to lurker hunting: the town going after lurkers and 'OMG scumtell, KILL!' while the active scum pushed them forward.  The games that I've both played and hosted all had active scum: some whispering in the background, others active and fighting with the town.  Lurking is a null tell and lynches are for SCUM, not for punishing townies. 

So do we ignore the lurkers?  NO!  Here's how to handle lurkers.  I'll try (try =I'm having major RL problems right now so delays could show up) to do a scan of activity.  I'll be looking for people who don't post at all, people who do noncontent posts and folks who seem to be just following the crowd.  Once outed, we push em, HARD with votes and accusations.  Make them actually SAY something: an attack, a defense, SOMETHING.  If they don't post at all, we prod the mod because they may be AWOL.  If they post, then we'll have content on them and can get some reads.

It's usually best to get everyone saying something Day 1.  Don't forget, though, that lurking is a null tell: simply killing for that is no better than killing off those that steal the spotlight. 

[JoshuaFH]

Would you care to explain what WOT means for us dumb people Dakarion?

Alex, I'm probably just a fuddy-duddy, but I'm not a big fan of posts with sarcasm deliberately inserted in. I don't like having to discern what you're serious about, and what you're just kidding about. Do you understand?

Also, is what Dakarion said about you drawing metagame knowledge from your IRC games true? You know I haven't played in forever, so I think that mentioning that might have been important...

[Mephansteras]

What if he's lying scum and he has a power that makes lynching him a bad idea for the town?

Dude... This seems one stupid question... There's no game where scum can get lynched without losing... Otherwise... how would town win? 

Ok, this is minor but I feel compelled to answer it. It's not a stupid question! This is a mafia with bizarre roles. We don't know that they are balanced and we don't know that the scum didn't get some neat power combination that makes lynching one of them early on a good thing for them. Besides, I've won games as scum by busing a teammate early on. So, yeah, lynching scum without thinking about it first can lead to a town loss. I'm just trying to avoid that.

We do weird stuff here at bay12, and I wasn't about to just jump on the 'lynch Josh because he tells us to' bandwagon carelessly. Since we had an easy way to confirm him, I thought it was worth the extra caution. It turned out that he was telling the truth and everything worked well, but we only know that in hindsight.

Anyway,


Confirmed town:
webadict - obviously

Town reads:
chaoticjosh - I agree. Giving the town a confirmed townie day 1 would be stupid as scum, since it's a proven way to help the town win.
Mr.Person - Not as sure...he's a bit jumpy. But he did give some good reasons for what he did (eventually) and he is pretty aggressive as town.
dakarian - Probably true. He seems to be putting in a good effort at scumhunting.

Leaning town:
Mephansteras - Well, I know I'm town.
Alexhans - This list matches reasonably well with my suspicions, so he's probably acting town. However, he's crafty so I'm not going to just accept him as town for giving us a nice list

Neutral:
Diakron - Yeah..he hasn't done much to sway me one way or the other.
Zaithemaster - I'm leaning slightly town on him so far. He's at least put out a good number of his town play-style tells.

Most Scum is probably here:
ToonyMan - Well, he is kind of crazy, which can make it hard to read him. But his bandwagoning without any explanation is a good cause for suspicion.
Archangel - I'm neutral on him so far. He's given some reasons for the votes he's given, although none of it was really new. Could be town, could just as easily be scum trying to fly under the radar.
Cheeetar - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
Pandarsenic - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
RedWarrior0 - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
brothernature - Lying low and hasn't said much of anything substantial in his posts. I'm leaning scum on him.
Boksi - I know he's inexperienced, but jumping on bandwagons without thinking things through for yourself? Not good. Leaning scum on him as well.

Ok, there are my thoughts on things. (In orange).

Mostly, I agree with Alex's list so far. I'm more cautious than him in a few places and less worried in others, but it's a good starting point. And I'd really like to hear everyone else's take on the list as well. Especially the people who've been quiet so far this game!

[Leafsnail]

The lights dim, and a dramatic note is heard!

You immediately look towards the computer, which giving a votecount.  The words projected in blood red on the wall read:

Mr.Person: chaoticjosh, ToonyMan, Diakron, Archangel, Boksi
Boksi: Zaithemaster

[dakarian]

Well, I'm back.  Ok, first things first:

WOT = Wall of Text.  When a person's single post can fill your whole screen and you STILL need to scroll to read the rest, it's a wall of text.  It's very hard to swallow, but can lead to some wonderful insights.

For the record, my 'powerful WOT' comment is meant to be a compliment.

Also: Meta-game information refers to using a person's past games to determine their alignment in this game.  It's a viable option to help determine scum/towniness.

For example: I know Toony to leave lots of very VERY short posts and quick votes.  He's a hard read do to his style.  Based on my experience with him in a few games, though, I've seen a batch of craziness (null) and a few town tells based on his behavior.  He has scumtells, but they aren't showing at the moment.  Keep pushing him though just to make sure.


As for everyone else, I did a deep scan on a person's activity.  I tried not to analyze too much on content and more aimed for how often their posts had content, were analytical, were aggressive, or were just following someone else.  Feel free to double check my findings.


First off, the clearly active:
Alexhans
Mr. Person

They've all but lead the debate for a good while.

As for the others:
Chaoticjosh: stayed back a bit then charged in with his power role.  After that, he's been active and hunting

Pandarsenic: Not much of any real hunting beyond the random vote.  Comments, but doesn't really scumhunt

Toonyman: Nonanalytical but aggressive. 

Zaithmaster: very analytical, and trying to aim at a sideliner.

Mephansteras: Followed me along the hunt for Person, and is now lurker hunting.  Still need to see him attack someone that's not so easy meat.

Archangel: Nothing of content early on, later on following the pack.

Diakron: Similar to Arch until after the reset: the recent vote sounds like it has more thought.

Cheeetar: Only attack has been on Panda's reading of his 'known' role.  Nothing beyond that and nothing useful after the reset

RedWarrior0:  Nothing much at all. Need much more content.

brothernature: Similar to Redwarrior: very little content.

Boksi: Even less than the prior two due to not joining in on the randomvote. 


Thus, in response:

We have four people who have very little content: Boksi, brothernature, redwarrior, and archangel.

Meth is lurker hunting at the moment, so once we out the lurkers he'll show himself more as well.

Panda is just about active lurking.


Myself, I tend to see a lot of mafia hug between 'active' and 'inactive'.  They don't like to be right in the spotlight in Day 1 but they know not to lurk.  It leads to them throwing accusations about till they think they can pin the kill on someone without the town blaming them for it.  Thus, activitywise, Panda should be in my eyesights.

Mr. Person, I'm now unsure about you.  That's not enough to call for your death anymore.  I'll have to wait for more stuff from you before I can confirm either way.

Pandasenic.  Hey Panda.  What's up?  How are you feeling about what's going on.  Since you don't remember why you want Person dead I imagine you have a new suspect lined up. 

[Diakron]

  Last time i saw walls that tall i had to climb over them...

I dont get why we all have decided to post these WOT but it makes my head hurt

hmmm so much has been said and to littled hunting has been done for me to say anything new. (might as well post this and show i'm on)

[dakarian]

Remember the size of the flavor text in Beginner 1?  Remember when I said I can do that easily? 

I'm WORSE when I'm analyzing. 


I'll sum up a part that is important to you though:

Daikron: the noncontent posts are NOT helpful to your cause.  Stop the silly comments and go hunt someone.  You didn't do much of that in the first part of day 1 and, although you did better after the reset, you still aren't hunting enough. 

So go hunt, before the hunters hunt you.

[ToonyMan]

My thoughts so far:

ToonyMan - Me.

chaoticjosh - Helped Town a lot by giving us a confirmed Town member, but I feel his posting habits and expressions are off this game.  Still not decided.

Pandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.

Zaithemaster - I agree with the Boksi thing.  Being helpful.

Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.

Archangel - Usual Archangel is usual, but this time with longer posts!

Diakron - Actually I think he's doing really good this time around, with his nice posts, but they're giving off scum tells.

Mr.Person - Well, I am VOTING him right now, but I AM because he is being highly defensive.  SCUM TELL.  Number two on my list.

Cheeetar - Cheeetar is good in my book this game.  Not aggressive enough though.

dakarian - Being helpful and posting lots of stuff, all for me to read!

webadict - Duh.

FireWarrior0 - Doesn't look to be acting off, not getting good reads off him though.

brothernature - I'm split between newbiness and scum nemesis.

Boksi - Number three on my scum list.  Acting INSANELY suspicious.  Look at this quote!!:

Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.

WUT

Alexhans - Being his usual serious self, he does this both scum and town, but the reason I believe him to be scum is he INSANELY BAD judgement on Webadict and the fact that he's defending Mr.Person, number one on my list of scum.


So in summary: (I won't be on the list :-P)

CONFIRMED TOWN:
webadict

TOWN:
dakarian
Zaithemaster
Cheeetar
Diakron

IFFY:
chaoticjosh
Mephansteras
Archangel
FireWarrior0
brothernature

MAFIA:  (yes I know there isn't this many)
Pandarsenic
Mr.Person
Boksi
Alexhans

[Mr.Person]

Alexhans, your list is fine, but I'd probably put Dakarian lower and Mephanasteras higher. Meph would be leaning town and Dakarian would be neutral. I'm not sure, but I'll grudgingly agree with you about Diakron.

ToonyMan would be in a new category I call "Scum" along with Archangel. Archangel, why are you lurking and hopping on bandwagons without explanation?

FAKEDIT: Hmm... gimme some time to digest that list, ToonyMan. I still think you're scum, because your list is weird. I would like Alexhans to daykill you, honestly. You're pretty much the one person I'm most certain is scum. For instance, why do you trust Cheeetar so much? He's barely posted at all. Also, you're trusting a player who's giving off scumtells? That makes no sense, care to explain how that works in ToonyLand?

[ToonyMan]

About the Diakron thing.  I have SO many times lynched Diakron because I got scum tells from his posts when he was actually town.  I can't read him, but he looks like he's doing his best this game so I'll give him a shot.

[Mephansteras]

Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.

I didn't say I was going to lurk (and I haven't been). I said I'm going to hold off on voting for a while while I watch what's going on. There is a lot of stuff going on and a lot of people who've been too quiet.

And, to Dakarian, note that I'm not voting for the lurkers just for lurking. I'm just trying to get them to talk so I can make an intelligent vote. That said, I'm going to vote for Boksi for his jumping onto the Mr.Person bandwagon, knowing its bandwagoning, and not giving a really good reason for doing so.

@Boksi: If you're willing to vote him you must have reasons. Spell them out. Joining a bandwagon with a good reason is fine (we have to lynch someone), but just jumping on board without any good evidence is bad news. And don't assume we know why you're voting for him, spell it out. Otherwise it looks like you're scum going 'Oh, easy town lynch! I'll just vote the guy everyone else is voting and no one will suspect me'.

[ToonyMan]

Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.

I didn't say I was going to lurk (and I haven't been). I said I'm going to hold off on voting for a while while I watch what's going on. There is a lot of stuff going on and a lot of people who've been too quiet.

Not voting is SCUMMY.  But you just did so AWESOME.

[webadict]

Lynch the crap out of Mephansteras, you incredibly laid-back, non-chalant, ask-lots-of-meaningless-questions, scummy person you!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Mephansteras]

Meaningless questions?