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[Muz]

Hey, I just thought up an idea for a game. It's inspired mostly by Millenia: Altered Destinies, but also influenced by DF, Dark Sun, and Warcraft.

Story is as follows..
You are some entity who watches over a fantasy country. You have two powers - the ability to see far into the future, and the ability to influence the first-born of the leading generation of every race. The game lets you influence humans, dwarves, elves, goblins, and orcs. But only the ruling faction - if that faction ever gets overthrown, you lose control over the whole race.

All these races then grow throughout history.. they start new cities, they have problems, they face natural disasters, infestations, plagues, etc. But you can only influence the ones important enough to "change history", like if the guy you control is about to get assassinated/killed, or if some plague threatens to kill off an important inventor.

The hardest part of the game will be that the races will be working against each other. So, if you make a race stronger, they could become so powerful as to wipe out or beat down another race. E.g. if you teach humans about fire magic too early, they could wipe out elves, if the elves still haven't discovered water magic. And in some rare cases, you actually want them to fight.. like a war between humans and goblins could form an alliance between the humans and elves and teach the goblins defensive techniques.

You win if you can keep the island intact after 1000 years. Obviously, something bad happens at 1000 years.. you'd need to keep all races powerful enough to fight this menace.


It's pretty much as easy as ambitious games get, in terms of coding, so I'm hoping to do a quick run for this. I'm a bit short on ideas for the storyline, especially with all the multiple time branches, so if anyone feels like writing stories where the future changes according to past actions, let me know

[chaoticag]

Well, I'm interested in helping out, but I doubt I could put together the entire thing.

[timmeh]

I love the idea, but I personally think it would work better without a set story you are supposed to follow.  Now, I have a strange obsession with non-linear games so I'm biased, but that's my opinion.  The potential here is huge though, I'll definitely be watching this rather closely...

[kholhaus]

So story huh?

Well of course in the first 100 years they'll begin the transition from instinctual knowledge to Basic Mechanisms and Architecture. As they are created from the Seven Beings. Each race gets to choose a being to worship, as they are primitive and nearly mindless. It soon becomes a religion. However, if all races choose the same being to worship, a Crusade would happen. Same goes for if they choose an opposing Being. All the races are influenced, unbeknownst to them, by you. The Seventh Being. The one that can manifest in the world and manipulate kings.

Now some of my ideas demand if this will be a simulator with just hidden algorithms and tech trees, or if it will show troop movement and settlements.

Okay. Here we go:
Long ago, and I'm sure you've heard this before, There was an island. Lush and full of life. Everything was peaceful, serene, calm and quiet. Unawares, were the animal and plants of the island, that war and pillaging would soon come to the garden of the gods. The Seven Beings knew this. That 1000 years from now the beautiful island would be ravaged and levelled to ash. The Seven created first the elves. Magical and immortal. With an affinity for nature, they created their homes in the trees. Then they set the earth to life, out of the rock came the dwarves. Stout and short-tempered, and just as rocky, these dwarves set to work creating beautiful masterpieces in their mountainhome. They then created the mischievous goblins, whose curious gaze was set upon the barren areas of the land. With tools in hand they created the mud pits, which is now their abode. The orcs came next. Similar to their smaller greener cousins, the orcs rose up from the mud that the goblins had dug out. These barbaric creatures migrated from the pits to the grasslands. Dry and hard, they knew that they couldn't stay here long. Their nomadic nature led them to water, but time and time again they had to move. Then, the Seven created man. A mixture of all the races, but with one major difference. They were given a parasitic nature, destined to use up resources to better their own lives.
 
The Seven created the races, but in haste. They paid for it with war. Many of the other races they made died off due to the savagery and bloodlust. It falls to you, the Seventh, to influence the world and save the island.

I made this kind of hastily.

[Leafsnail]

I quite like kholhaus' suggestion.  While I do like non linear games too, writing an interesting open ended game is going to be pretty hard.  It could make sense if there are set events along the way (HUGE natural disasters, such as mass droughts, strong hurricanes and huge forest fires, maybe?) that will increase the pressure on you to make sure the races are versatile and balanced.  Possible suggestion for an event:

The island has, of course, met many challenges.  There has been fighting, wars, violence and depravity throughout its entire history.  So many that perhaps its inhabitants are starting to become desensitised - glorious stories of war are not necessarily needed when the same war is still raging 200 years later.  However, every now and again, there is an event.  An event that is recorded and remembered, an event which rocks the very bedrock each race is built on.

One such event was The Great Thirst of year 500.

For an entire year no rain fell on the island.  The plants began to wither, the crops began to die.  Wars that had continued even during the Great Eruption of 250 were brought to a halt as the soldiers begun to wilt too.  Every race was asking the same question - what have we done to deserve this?  How can we stop this?  Why have we been forsaken?  Even the mighty war factories and armories of the great Orcish savannah fell silent during the Thirst.

By the middle of the year, the lakes were running dry.  There were few rivers left, and the wars that had been forced to stop during the drought were replaced by an altogether different kind of conflict - in fighting among races, sometimes even among factions, in a desperate attempt to control the few remaining water sources.  Sieges were fought simply because a villager had a well in the middle which had not yet dried up.

When year 500 ended, it rained.  It poured, in fact.  The flood was certainly not as large as the Great Flood, but the rain was enough to rejuvanate the island.  It would take decades for the island to recover, with all races having taken heavy casualties.  Life, however, must go on, if the menace is to ever be defeated.

What do you think?  Obviously they'll need more creative names, but the general idea of massive disasters that affect everyone appeals to me .

[chaoticag]

Since Kholhaus has already put his idea for the setting I might as well put the one I have in mind:

In the begining, a world was born of fire and earth. It took eons for the scortched surface to cool, but with its new found coolness water, the root of all life, flowed like never before. Around this time, a presence Was, and with its arrival came bursts of life. Although gradual, this mysterious entity molded the life which flourished into new shapes and sizes. The presence began to think of itself as a Manipulator, with destiny, and therefore the planet, within its reach.

And so its arogance grew, toying with lives as it learned the reaches of its powers; acting on whatever whim would prove to be more entertaining, when suddenly its powers started fade. Panicing, it scryed the future for an answer, and what it saw horrified it.

In the distant future, an experiment infusing magic and technology was successful enough to impair its ability, freeing the future from their "destinies". This technique depended on harvesting special crystals found on a certain island, and following that thread, the Manipulator found that there was still time before those responsible had the chance to stumble upon that island. Taking this opertunity, the Manipulator sprea its domain over the seemingly insignificant isles in order to concentrait its powers. If it loses this base in the upcoming war, then as it Was before it shall be no more. So it was, that the fate of the Manipulator lay in its schemes and actions over the next one thousand years.

[Muz]

The long term goal is to make it non-linear, but I can't start it that way. See how the Adams brothers do it, they start with a set story, then create Power Goals to indicate the kind of stories that a non-linear system could generate. This is a small experiment, to create a set story that works. The sequel will probably try and generate these stories, but right now, I want to get a bit of a guideline


Er, I try to avoid any religious context in my games, including worshipping. It's a bit like sex and gore.. it's all in good fun, I'd play it, but it's awkward to toss on a CV, or show it to my friends/family. Long story, but let's just say it's a bit more trouble than it's worth. And it includes religious references, like crusades.

I'm perfectly happy with magic creating things or a very powerful archmage creating orcs from the goblins. Or even powerful mortal creatures who live forever. Or even implying that the player is a godlike creature, but not outright saying it. That way, I could point out to a religious fanatic that the player is really "some guy controlling things from behind a monitor"


Anyway, I like the ideas. I sort of started off thinking that all of them were created at the same time in those 1000 years, but it might be cool to have elves at year -2000, goblins at -800, orcs at -200, humans at year -20 and such

Now some of my ideas demand if this will be a simulator with just hidden algorithms and tech trees, or if it will show troop movement and settlements.

Technically, the idea is more of an adventure game.. you're sort of like the 'magic mirror' or something the king of every tribe refers to, so technically, the game is mostly in using conversations to solve puzzles. But I do plan to show troop movement and settlements if it doesn't take too much time. The map is more of a bonus feature, though, and only if it gives players a better picture, rather than just being a decorative thing.


Sample idea I had:
In year 431, the dwarves struck Adamantine. Rumors of this metal spread far and wide, even beyond the island. The elves prized beautiful things and wanted it for its strength and beauty. The humans and orcs were eager to lay their hands on the most powerful metal in the lands. The goblins cared little for it, and didn't want to bother learning a new metal to work with. They just sat back and hoped for everyone to kill each other over it so that they could steal the spoils of war.

In year 439, the elves declared war on the dwarves. Long battles were fought, both weakening each other greatly. In year 441, the humans marched in on both. They broke through the elven siege on the dwarven fortress and claimed it for their own. (Dwarven king slain, player loses control over dwarves). In year 445, the orcs took over the weakened elven capital city. (Elven king slain)

[Alternate timeline, if the player convinces the elves to buy adamantine at a vastly inflated price from the dwarves]
The elves sold their most prized possessions in exchange for adamantine. But they were crafty creatures. Instead of wasting it on weaponry, they studied it carefully. In the year 441, the humans declared war on the dwarves. Soon after, the elves created a synthetic version of adamantine, much weaker, but far more powerful than other metals. With it, they assisted their dwarven allies in fighting off the human siege. The dwarves and elves kept fighting on, ridding the world of the human menace. In the year 482, the human king was slain and the human settlements were barren except for a few. The goblins settled in the ruins of the human cities and trained the remaining survivors for revenge...

[Leafsnail]

Can I assume that each race has a particular advantage against the final "menace", and thus it would be prudent to try and keep them all alive and under your control as much as possible?

[Muz]

Yeah, that's sort of the goal. Dwarves are inventive. Elves have the best control over nature magic. Orcs have good warrior skills (and greatly contribute to the other races' defense technology via arms race). Not so sure about the other two.

Spoiler: Final menace spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm thinking of making them kobolds. You know, the not-so-classic D&D kobolds with dragon blood, magic in their veins, deep underground lairs, and a dragon.

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler: Also Final Menace Related (click to show/hide)

Haha, I did wonder what happened to them kobolds.  So I suppose endless swarms of them would pour forth from the ground until finally their Dragon King emerges?

[Muz]

I'm not really sure how much you could spoil a game about changing time, since you could see what happens in the future Anyway..

Spoiler: More spoilers (click to show/hide)

The kobolds are clever, but ruthless fellas. All of them have secret underground lairs, much like the goblins. But kobold lairs are really twisting mazes with some gold and some martyrs to appease greedy, looting humanoids. The real lair lies several levels deeper, which includes barracks, housing for several thousand, kobold sorcerers, and an emergency lever tied to a magma pipe to deal with adventurers who stray too far. They learned from the goblins that the best way to stay alive was to act dumb and hide, and the rest of the world wouldn't take them seriously.

Kobolds are closely related to dragons, and have a close deal with them. They worship really admire dragons, who take care of the main fort (not the fake one) and teach them to cast magic. In return, the kobolds steal trinkets and pass it over to them. Kobolds really have no use for material possessions, it's their dragon masters who love to hoard them.

Also, being of dragon blood, they have some amazing spellcasting ability. Probably they summon in some dragon masters to take over the isle at the end of the 1000 years or something. They're able to cast some nasty spells, but it's rare to see a kobold sorcerer, because they try hard to stay out of sight.

[Muz]

Hey, bumping up this thread, just to ask if you guys could think up any events. It's going to be tough to write a hardcoded story, so I've decided the easiest path is by events.

Anyway, first up, there's been a little change to the design. Instead of events being hardcoded based on previous events, I've decided to make it so that events happen based on some variables. Say, a civil war starts when Population > 5, Military > 3, and if Monom is born. So, if the population stays small or military remains backwards, the civil war never happens. But if you want the population from degrading into war, you either have to handle events when it happens, or change the past to remove Monom. You could get orcs to burn his village or goblin babysnatchers to steal him and the civil war never happens.

Example event:
[trigger at lvl 6 population, lvl 4 military]
Monom, a master swordsdwarf feels that the kingdom should be ruled by a powerful fighter, not by a sissy noble. He's managed to sway half the military, but the Royal Guard and the elite commando squad still remain loyal.

Nothing) The civil war rages on for a few years, the king is killed, but a freak crossbow bolt shot by a child also kills Monom. Everyone agrees to crown the child as the king.
[-2 military, -2 population, -3 stability]

A) Hire an adventurer to assassinate Monom
- Monom dies. Triggers the 'rebel adventurer' variable, where the adventurer becomes a notable person in the human plot, returns with dwarven riches and weapons, and starts an assassin guild.
[-1 economy, -1 military, -1 population, trigger for 'rebel adventurer']

B) Challenge Monom to a duel
The king dies. Monom becomes the new king.
[-2 economy, +2 military, -1 population, changed to 'dictatorship']

C) Send the commando team to defeat Monom
Many commandos die in the process but they manage to take him down.
[-2 military, -1 population]


So, if anyone wants to throw in a plot or unique event or something, let me know

[chaoticag]

Are those numbers hidden and descriptions hidden? I'd prefer them to be.

I'd like to see magical pollution happen to nations that advance in more destructive magics versus restoritive magics. Affects the workforce population and has a negative affect on comerce:

[triger at lvl x Offensive magics > lvl x-3 Restorative magic]

The advancement of the offensive fantastical arts has started to affect the areas around [Country A].

Do nothing:
Farmlands turn barren, wildlife scarce and defects are more common.
(-2 population growth, -3 commerce)

A. Hire druids to remedy areas:
The druids remedy the surrounding areas, but cost a great deal of money. They may eventually sicken of the remediation and revolt.
(-2 commerce, triger for Gaian Revolution, requires Druidism)

B. Impose restrictions on the destructive arts.
A fine is imposed upon those that learn the destructive arts. The military cannot support as many battle mages.
(-2 military, +1 comerce, -1 stability)

C. Persecute the practitioners of all fantastical arts.
The ruler decrees the magi to be devil worshipers. They revolt violently [if magic lvl < 5 "and are destroyed"].
(-3 military, -3 comerce, Magus State if magic lvl >= 5)

[Muz]

The numbers are hidden. But since you could see through time, the descriptions aren't going to be hidden

E.g. Year 100, the civil war happens (you get to make a decision here). In Year 101, the civilization is fighting. In Year 110, it ends and the stability penalty is applied. If the kingdom is already unstable, Year 111 and above are anarchy.

So, you could sort of figure out the numbers from the game.

BTW, I really like the magical pollution idea. I'm really starting to consider whether to make this a procedurally generated thing now, but I think I'll finish it first, and experiment with the sequel And if anyone else wants to give any ideas for events, it doesn't really have to be that format; that was just to explain the mechanics.

[eerr]

so are there any limits as to what you can see the future of?