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Author Topic: +The Engravers Guild+  (Read 378318 times)

TherosPherae

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3015 on: April 17, 2011, 09:50:55 pm »

forget software, grab a pencil
I'm worse with a pencil, if it could be imagined that that were possible.

When I said really crappy, I MEANT it.
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Quote from: Aqizzar
Being vengeance and the night could only be improved by being the ballpunching vengeful night.
Quote from: Cthulhu
Gotham's mysteriously high mental illness rate isn't so mysterious when you find out Batman thinks subduing a guy means spiking his head into the pavement like a football.

Sensei

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3016 on: April 17, 2011, 10:17:36 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is the picture being swallowed up by a James Bond intro?
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Vertigon

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3017 on: April 17, 2011, 10:48:48 pm »

So.... this is the thread where all the really crappy artists get advice on how to improve, right? If not, I'll just relocate this post to where it belongs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Paint.NET, Sumopaint, GIMP is all good stuff.

So, advice:

1) Hands. Work on hands. Draw pages of hands. Eat, sleep, breathe hands. Learn them inside and out, literally, which leads to my next point.

2) Anatomy. You want to learn the framework, be able to draw the bones/muscles/all that fun stuff before the finished product. That step isn't really necessary when you've learned it well enough, but for beginners it helps a ton. There are lots of tutorials to get you started, going, and finished.

3) Right now, don't worry about shading. The method of shading I see here is: "Finished product? Slather some gray on it." This is badbadbad. Don't bother with shading right now until you've got some of the finer points down.

4) Hard outlines. Look at your picture. See how everything is outlined in black? That's bad. Outlines should ideally be a darker shade of the color or not even there. These are hard and soft outlines, respectively. I'll dig up some old article in a sec.


If you don't read the rest of my post, read this: I am no kind of expert on anything arty. Take my entire post as one big IIRC. Still, that's just some stuff I noticed that could be improved. Overall, it's not a bad start- and I can't wait for you to get better! :D

Edit: Holy shit I actually found the post I was looking for, while searching for the completely wrong terms. You can thank me later, for now just read Spreggo's post here :P The HTML basically explodes on this guy, and gets a little distracting sometimes when the text is like size 20. But it's still an excellent resource. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have Amnesia to play.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 11:09:22 pm by Vertigon »
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Mechlin

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3018 on: April 17, 2011, 11:50:39 pm »

Just stopped by to say hello. I'm an amateur illustrator whose current obsession is portaraits.

The first one has already been on this forum, in the Genesis thread. It's my cute paranoid and always nervous expedition leader which took me about 5 hours. No reference photo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And that's an actual portrait (still looks like a sci-fi dwarf, hehe). 3 days, 6 MP.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Rose

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3019 on: April 17, 2011, 11:59:01 pm »

Your shading is fantastic.

the proportions, on the other hand, are a bit odd. especially with the first pic. things are all over the place.
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Mechlin

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3020 on: April 18, 2011, 12:09:44 am »

Your shading is fantastic.

the proportions, on the other hand, are a bit odd. especially with the first pic. things are all over the place.
Of course they are all over the place - it's not a human female, it's a psychopatic alcoholic dwarf. I tried to make it as inhuman as possible without losing the angry expression and the overall... hm... charm.

As for the second picture - I dunno, I used several reference photos of one and the same person. Where is it wrong exactly?
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Rose

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3021 on: April 18, 2011, 12:22:00 am »

Mainly the first one.

the second is fine.
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Mechlin

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3022 on: April 18, 2011, 12:34:34 am »

Mainly the first one.

the second is fine.
Thanks. I guess the initial concept was wrong then.
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Soadreqm

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3023 on: April 18, 2011, 03:48:52 am »

forget software, grab a pencil
I'm worse with a pencil, if it could be imagined that that were possible.

When I said really crappy, I MEANT it.

And therein lies the rub. What you really need is not fancy software, but about a thousand hours of practice. That might sound like a lot, but remember that you can spread it over several years. Decades, if you're lazy. :P

Mechlin: I think the first one hits the Uncanny Vally. Realistically drawn people with slightly wrong proportions look creepy. If you were going for an unearthly, unnatural feel, that's just great, though. It all depends on whether you want dwarves to be short, grumpy humans with a knack for mining or fearsome underground-dwelling devils who slither up from their holes at night to steal babies so that they can breed them for their valuable bones.
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lordnincompoop

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3024 on: April 18, 2011, 04:16:19 am »

Mainly the first one.

the second is fine.
Thanks. I guess the initial concept was wrong then.

No, the concept is fine; just some details. Her right eye in the first picture is much too far from the nose when you compare it with the left, even at that perspective. The right also seems to be a bit too high up.

But very, very good nevertheless. You might want to work on getting the perspectives and alignments right, because I still see some wonkiness in the eyes in the second. Or maybe it's just me.
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joss

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3025 on: April 18, 2011, 07:17:41 am »

So this is a poster I made a while back for the ball we had at school. The first thing I've made using dry-pastels. The quality of the photo is crap, I know, shot it with a cheap camera.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3026 on: April 18, 2011, 07:27:14 am »

i completely disagree with people complaining about mechlin's first portrait. it's a dwarf, it's human enough that it can be called a humanoid, but it is not human. have you seen dnd's rendering of elves? or TES elves? why cant dwarves have unique facial traits? also, mechlin was probably following the game's description of the dwarfette, "her eyes are incredibly wide set"

forget software, grab a pencil
I'm worse with a pencil, if it could be imagined that that were possible.

When I said really crappy, I MEANT it.

And therein lies the rub. What you really need is not fancy software, but about a thousand hours of practice. That might sound like a lot, but remember that you can spread it over several years. Decades, if you're lazy. :P
this.
the advice vertigon gave applies to people a little more advanced than you. judging by the only drawing you posted you are either very young or started to draw just recently, therefore you'll probably want to start from the beginning. hands are an excellent subject, very versatile, and people usually carry one spare with them, (if you don't have a spare one you can borrow one from someone else) but they are not the only subject, you'll want to draw people, cars, buildings... do whatever you like, just follow these four directives:
1-draw from life. carry a sketchbook everywhere, whenever you have to wait for a bus, etc. sttart to draw things you see
2-draw a lot, don't bother with the finished product, don't try to make it look good for someone else, if you get something wrong dont erase it, just draw over it again, these are just exercises, you dont  to lose time prettying them up
3-don't draw from memory, memorizing proportions might make your life easier, but will also make you a worse draftsman. it's a necessary step to take, eventually, but it should be more of a priority to learn how to draw proportions from life or reference that to draw from memory. the trick is relative measuring: to draw a complex object you first select a simpler part of it, and then compare it's relative size to the rest of the object, for a human body, take the head, then see how many "heads" can you stack at the person's height, how many "heads" long are their arms, etc. early on you'll probably have to actually count the heads with your pencil, but with practice this will become automatic, and you'll start to get a better grasp of general proportions
4-patience. this aint easy, there's no improving without effort

@joss:
beautiful

Siquo

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3027 on: April 18, 2011, 07:58:45 am »

So this is a poster I made a while back for the ball we had at school. The first thing I've made using dry-pastels. The quality of the photo is crap, I know, shot it with a cheap camera.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mucho Mucha :)
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

lordnincompoop

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3028 on: April 18, 2011, 08:13:56 am »

i completely disagree with people complaining about mechlin's first portrait. it's a dwarf, it's human enough that it can be called a humanoid, but it is not human. have you seen dnd's rendering of elves? or TES elves? why cant dwarves have unique facial traits? also, mechlin was probably following the game's description of the dwarfette, "her eyes are incredibly wide set"

I don't mind that they're wide set. But when the right eye is almost twice as far from the nose as the left is, there's a problem.
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TherosPherae

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Re: +The Engravers Guild+
« Reply #3029 on: April 18, 2011, 10:12:12 am »

ton of stuff
ton of stuff
Thanks, guys. I was actually kind of expecting being told to GTHO, being as bad as I am. But now I have some idea of what to work on to improve, and a few resources to help me do so.

I probably won't post any more pictures until they're much, much better. Your eyes can thanks me later.
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Quote from: Aqizzar
Being vengeance and the night could only be improved by being the ballpunching vengeful night.
Quote from: Cthulhu
Gotham's mysteriously high mental illness rate isn't so mysterious when you find out Batman thinks subduing a guy means spiking his head into the pavement like a football.
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