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[Grendus]

Well, piracy is a dangerous topic, but, from my view, it's only dangerous if you help people figure out how to pirate. As long as you don't tell people how to pirate, you're safe.

And even if you're a pirate who can't resist, there are ways where you can't get caught violating this rule.

Aqizzar: On topic, we need to find a way to have DRM without having this DRM harm innocent people like you. (I was wondering of letting the whole game be free, but allow for online verification for content such as secret novellas. That's not technically DRM, but it's a way of rewarding people for paying for the game, rather than punishing those that don't. See Good Old Games, for instance.)

I'm not sure about eliminating DRM entirely though. If only because of the argument (not backed by data, but possible) that DRM might discourage "lazy" pirates, and encourgae them to buy the full game.I want some enforcement mechansim to discourage piracy though, DRM or not.

It's not hard for your lazy pirate to crack a game though, as since few if any crackers can make money selling cracks they make them fairly easy to access (note, I won't tell you how to find them, figure it out yourself). If gaming companies want to compete with piracy, they need to make buying their games as convenient as flexible as illegally downloading. Many of them have responded in the opposite way, cracking down on paying customers which may slow down piracy by a day or two but hurts the customers they want to keep.

But that's just my personal opinion.

[Ampersand]

In order to get Steam working on Linux, one would probably have to make serious modifications to the Steam client, haxing the shit out of it, so to speak. This thougherly violates and breaks the terms of use agreement you sign when you install Steam, and thus is illegal and has no place on the Valve forums.

It takes absolutely no hacking or reverse engineering to get the steam client to function on Linux. All it takes is Wine, which is basically a Linux implementation of the DLL system used in Windows, that allows Windows programs to run in Linux natively. It doesn't use actual Windows DLLs however, can't unless you actually own Windows yourself, so the implementation isn't perfect.

To be clear, it takes no property from Microsoft of Valve, it's not an emulation of Windows, it's a compatibility interface. Anyway, using Wine, the Steam client will function well enough, as will some games, some of them very well. If you have a legally owned copy of windows, you can copy the dlls from that installation into the wine system32 folder and instruct wine to use native dlls. This adds a lot more compatibility and usually better performance, particularly if you manage to install DirectX on it.

So, no, unless there's a line in the EULA that explicitly states that it may only be installed on Windows for whatever reason, then claiming that it's wrong to use it on Linux is patently false.

[Neruz]

I love how everyone always ignores the word 'probably'.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I love how everyone always ignores the word 'probably'.

What does that even mean?  You said that something was probably one way when it was in fact the complete opposite way.  Ignorance of the truth doesn't make it false.

[Neonivek]

I love how everyone always ignores the word 'probably'.

What does that even mean?  You said that something was probably one way when it was in fact the complete opposite way.  Ignorance of the truth doesn't make it false.

Probably is what people use when they are not absolutely certain. It is an inductive statement not a deductive statement.

Thus "When it was in fact the complete opposite" doesn't deconstruct a probably statement. You can only deconstruct what the statement was based off of.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Which is what just happened.  So your statement about how "everyone always ignores the word 'probably'." is completely pointless.

[Servant Corps]

It's not hard for your lazy pirate to crack a game though, as since few if any crackers can make money selling cracks they make them fairly easy to access (note, I won't tell you how to find them, figure it out yourself).

That's what I mean by lazy. Some people can't figure it out by themselves and don't want to. Hence, they buy.

I doubt buying will ever be competitive with piracy, if only because one would usually prefer to buy something for free than buy something for money. I'm not aiming for competitiveness, just limiting the effects of piracy.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I think it's not so much lazyness as an aversion to thinking.

It takes allot less effort to just pirate a game than it does to go to the store and buy it, get it home, find out it's not working because of DRM, get tech support, and fix it.

If you're standing on one of two parallel paths that don't meet, you're not going to get onto the second one no matter how fast you run along the first.

[kcwong]

Aqizzar: On topic, we need to find a way to have DRM without having this DRM harm innocent people like you. (I was wondering of letting the whole game be free, but allow for online verification for content such as secret novellas. That's not technically DRM, but it's a way of rewarding people for paying for the game, rather than punishing those that don't. See Good Old Games, for instance.)

Sorta like Stardock's GalCiv. But I still do not like that; because it still requires to company to be alive and well so that you can properly use a product you've purchased. If the company went belly up you can no longer update/reinstall.

I have no problem with CD checks actually... my beef is with online authentications. If I purchase something, I want to be able to use it in the future, whether the company selling me the product is still around or not. I'll handle the hardware problem and companys should keep their DRMs out of my way.

Windows activation is bad enough; but at least Microsoft is HUGE (huge like no game companies can compare), and without the OS there's no gaming anyway. I don't want this trend to spread to every other piece of software I purchased.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Hey, speaking of Telltale games, they're giving away free copies of Launch of the Screaming Narwhal for one day only.

[Tilla]

Aqizzar: On topic, we need to find a way to have DRM without having this DRM harm innocent people like you. (I was wondering of letting the whole game be free, but allow for online verification for content such as secret novellas. That's not technically DRM, but it's a way of rewarding people for paying for the game, rather than punishing those that don't. See Good Old Games, for instance.)

Sorta like Stardock's GalCiv. But I still do not like that; because it still requires to company to be alive and well so that you can properly use a product you've purchased. If the company went belly up you can no longer update/reinstall.

I have no problem with CD checks actually... my beef is with online authentications. If I purchase something, I want to be able to use it in the future, whether the company selling me the product is still around or not. I'll handle the hardware problem and companys should keep their DRMs out of my way.

Windows activation is bad enough; but at least Microsoft is HUGE (huge like no game companies can compare), and without the OS there's no gaming anyway. I don't want this trend to spread to every other piece of software I purchased.

GOG literally has no protection. None. Even if the game originally had DRM of some sort or online checks, the files they give you on sale do not have one. You do not log in to play your games. Once it's downloaded you never have to talk to GOG again if you don't want.

[Neruz]

Which is what just happened.  So your statement about how "everyone always ignores the word 'probably'." is completely pointless.

I stated that getting Steam to work on Linux would probably require fiddling with the Steam code, and that doing so would be illegal and thus have no place on the Valve forums. You then responded that i claimed that using Steam on Linux is 'wrong' (i assume you meant illegal) because it does not require fiddling with the code, when i made no such claim.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Which is what just happened.  So your statement about how "everyone always ignores the word 'probably'." is completely pointless.

I stated that getting Steam to work on Linux would probably require fiddling with the Steam code, and that doing so would be illegal and thus have no place on the Valve forums. You then responded that i claimed that using Steam on Linux is 'wrong' (i assume you meant illegal) because it does not require fiddling with the code, when i made no such claim.

No I didn't.  The first post I made in this thread was asking you about the post you made about "probably" "always" being ignored by "everyone".

[Sappho]

I hate it when threads like this degrade into arguments about semantics and ad hominem attacks.  You guys sound like frigging politicians!

[Servant Corps]

Aqizzar: On topic, we need to find a way to have DRM without having this DRM harm innocent people like you. (I was wondering of letting the whole game be free, but allow for online verification for content such as secret novellas. That's not technically DRM, but it's a way of rewarding people for paying for the game, rather than punishing those that don't. See Good Old Games, for instance.)

Sorta like Stardock's GalCiv. But I still do not like that; because it still requires to company to be alive and well so that you can properly use a product you've purchased. If the company went belly up you can no longer update/reinstall.

Thing is, my idea has it that you only use the online verification to download extra stuff, like the novella. You don't need the novella to play the game, it's just an extra gift. So if the company goes belly-up, you just lose access to secret super-duper novella, but you can still play the game.