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Author Topic: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story  (Read 27005 times)

ThreeToe

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2009, 02:14:03 am »

Thanks everyone for reading my story.  I tried to give it my best effort.  I’ve had a lot of practice writing story rewards for the Bay 12 champions and it’s all a lot of fun.  As far as dwarven use of poison goes:  I think it has to pass the ‘badass test.’  I don’t imagine a dwarf sneaking up from behind and stabbing their enemy in the back with a poison knife, but dumping a caustic liquid down the fortress wall on a host of attackers, that works.  What do you think?
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Jackrabbit

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2009, 02:41:01 am »

I think if it hurts, is brutal and is in some cases inefficient, it's dwarven to a T.
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ThreeToe

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 03:40:04 am »

Actually what I was going for in this story was a way to flesh out characters even when they are part of an epic struggle.  I’m talking about spies and generals and other chess pieces you could move around a DF chessboard.  There would have to be threats, bribes, and blackmail.  I’m sure I missed some stuff.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 03:46:58 am »

That sounds pretty intriguing.
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ThreeToe

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 04:59:14 am »

ok, that's pretty funny.   :)
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Jackrabbit

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2009, 05:00:27 am »

*facepalm*

Once again, I make a hilarious joke I didn't mean to make in the first place. Why am I only funny when every one is listening but me?
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Mephansteras

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 11:17:46 am »

*facepalm*

Once again, I make a hilarious joke I didn't mean to make in the first place. Why am I only funny when every one is listening but me?

You're too self conscious?
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Vicomt

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 02:00:40 pm »

I think the posion thing fits quite nicely with other similar ethic traits, I can see an [ETHIC:USE_POISON:ENEMY_ONLY_AT_MAX_PRIORITY] being part of a culture's makeup, we see it all the time IRL on an even lower urgency scale sometimes.

Leafsnail

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 02:13:39 pm »

We need a new ethic ending.

ONLY_IF_AWESOME.  You know, the one that will generally apply to dwarves :P.  And yes, hurling unreliable and extremely dangerous devices full of poison at enemies is pretty dwarven.
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Footkerchief

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 02:57:45 pm »

I think the posion thing fits quite nicely with other similar ethic traits, I can see an [ETHIC:USE_POISON:ENEMY_ONLY_AT_MAX_PRIORITY] being part of a culture's makeup, we see it all the time IRL on an even lower urgency scale sometimes.

I'm pretty sure the current ethics are a placeholder anyway.  There's definitely a need for a system that allows societies to balance one ethical concern against another in ambiguous situations.  Maybe each culture could have overall moral priorities (such as peace, honor, conquest, dignity, infliction of suffering, etc.) and its own ideas concerning how much the "action categories" from the current ethics (such as torture, lying, etc.) support or subvert those priorities.

Once you have people making these kinds of judgments ("dishonorable, but necessary to salvage the dignity of our people" and so on), you can factor personalities into how they think about the "expected value" of a hoped-for outcome, what kinds of odds they'll risk, how much they care about societal morality vs. their own (or their own self-interest), how quickly they decide, etc.
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Dakk

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2009, 03:36:58 pm »

Culture and ethics need to exist before we can pervert them, so i'm all for what footketchief said. :)
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Balathustrius

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 12:43:39 pm »

Another great story.  I love these so much.   :D
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Daywalkah

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2009, 08:03:43 pm »

This story=awesomeness. I can't wait until the Army Arc is done so I can invade an enemy using a bunch of poison! Then I will control all water sources on the planet so all my enemies die of thirst! I look forward to your next story.
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Judas Maccabeus

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 04:52:14 pm »

Always good to see a new story up.  And this one doesn't disappoint.  :D
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Grendus

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Re: The Assassination of Zecalo Bronzeflower: A Threetoe Story
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2009, 05:35:36 pm »

Thanks everyone for reading my story.  I tried to give it my best effort.  I’ve had a lot of practice writing story rewards for the Bay 12 champions and it’s all a lot of fun.  As far as dwarven use of poison goes:  I think it has to pass the ‘badass test.’  I don’t imagine a dwarf sneaking up from behind and stabbing their enemy in the back with a poison knife, but dumping a caustic liquid down the fortress wall on a host of attackers, that works.  What do you think?

Honestly, natural poisons strike me as elvish, chemical poisons (such as refining mercury or lead toxins, or even just improving on wild animals venom) strikes me as the human version. Dwarves dump magma on their enemies. Though I must admit, I really wish I could load my catapults with wooden booze barrels, light them on fire, and launch flaming booze at my enemies. It would make the Russian Mafia look like amateurs. This is new territory for the community though, the odds of goblins actually conquering a fortress are a single, very round, digit. Dwarves are more likely to kill themselves in a stupid accident than die in war.

However, I agree, this actually opens up another issue entirely - doing unethical things to survive. Would the elves burn a forest if it was the only way to stop a goblin army from destroying their entire civilization? Would the dwarves resort to brutal measures  (read [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]) to end a potentially deadly uprising? We already see several breaks of dwarf ethics, such as a traitor (oath breaking and treason are both capital crimes) and killing another dwarf. They lied to the elves to get them to carry out the assination. This may be something Toady has to flesh out in the end, some civilizations may decide to do what is necessary while others choose to die out before submitting their values.

The glass orbs remind me a lot of the bottles of acid the humans used in "Dwarven Assault". Since the dwarves were living in exile with the humans in this story, you might actually consider that the dwarves were using a human weapon in the assassination, or at least one inspired by human weapons, which gives rise to another question - cultural contamination. Humans probably wouldn't think twice about using chemical weapons, but it seems the consensus is that dwarves would. So would being forced to live with the humans effect a civilizations ethics at all? If the elves were forced to hide in a dwarf fortress, would they stop being so shocked at seeing trees cut down?




Another thing I noticed that nobody commented on was how Bronzeflower's opponent in the arena had already been poisoned, and how the gladiator was actually an assassin. Killing as an example of power has not, I don't believe, been explored before (though it's not uncommon in fantasy settings, see Dune). Having the ruler or general prove his skill in the arena should be considered, especially in adventure mode where you might have to prove your skill before you're given a quest. At the same time, assassination can take many forms. Bronzeflower knew the boy was trying to kill him, but the boy tricked him and would have killed him if he hadn't been wearing armor. Tricking an opponent, cheap tactics like low blows, throwing sand, feints, trying to lull them into a false sense of security/superiority should be valid tactics.



As always, an awesome story Threetoe.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 05:51:09 pm by Grendus »
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