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Author Topic: The Big Bang...  (Read 2058 times)

Lord Dakoth

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The Big Bang...
« on: September 12, 2009, 11:50:56 pm »

I'd just like to discuss the Big Bang with someone who is knowledgeable on the topic. My astronomy book is somewhat less than helpful, and my professor says that we're going to be tested on this stuff soon.

If I understand correctly, the Big Bang was a gigantic "explosion" that started everything. What was it that "exploded?"

Maybe I just don't understand it, but it seems to me that something had to be there to "explode," but if there was already something there, then the Big Bang wasn't the beginning? I'm just very confused.

If there is anyone who is well informed about this topic, I would very much appreciate any clarification.
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A_Fey_Dwarf

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 01:01:44 am »

I could try to help you but I am not very good at explaining things. Instead I will suggest you read through Stephen Hawking's "A brief history of Time". Even though he has gotten a few things wrong, his book does very well at explaining your questions.
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Rilder

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 01:46:25 am »

Your chosen deity farted into a match...  :D
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Frelock

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 01:52:07 am »

There's much speculation on what happened "before" the big bang, but it's all speculation; there's pretty much so no evidence of any sort to back it up, save mathematical modeling.

The big problem with conceptualizing the big bang, is you have to think about space itself expanding, which is problematic for most people.  Things are getting farther apart in such a way that the only real explanation is for space itself to be expanding.  Imagine you had a rubber sheet, and pulled on all the edges and corners at the same time.  Things on the sheet would move apart from each other at a particular rate, which is what we observe when we look at distant galaxies.  It's not because things are physically moving in space, it's because space itself is expanding.  As to what space is expanding "into," there could be courses taught on the subject, and I'm not well enough versed in theoretical physics to give you a good enough answer.

Once you've wrapped your mind around the concept of space expanding, it's fairly easy to imagine space shrinking.  You could say that we're looking back in time, and seeing the entire universe, and more importantly space itself, getting smaller and smaller. 

Now, just imagine an ordinary box shrinking.  It gets smaller and smaller as its length, width, and height get smaller.  Eventually, it gets so small you can't see it.  Looking at it mathematically, it seems simple to make a box with its length, width, and height zero.  It just means the volume is now zero too.  Once you've got your box with no width, length, or height, and no volume, you have the universe before the big bang.

Here's the hard part: take that volume of zero, and put stuff in it.  A lot of stuff; the entire universe in fact.  All condensed into...nothing; a volume of zero can only be described as zip, zero, zilch, nada, absolutely nothing.  Then, let's just start that space growing, and suddenly, everything "comes into existence" in an infinitesimal point.  That point, which is the entire universe, expands rapidly, and is still expanding to this day.

Now, as to what caused the big bang, as I said, there's a lot of speculation and not a lot of evidence.  When we look into the night sky, we are looking back in time, and we can't see past the point where the entire universe was similar to the core of a star (there's not a lot of space, so everything is squished together).  One thing we do know, however, is that the universe's expansion is accelerating.  It's been hypothesized that there's some form of "dark energy" which causes this expansion; what exactly that is, though, we don't know.  It's reasonable to assume, however, that dark energy had something to do with "why" the big bang happened.  You've also got the string theorists, who've proposed some crazy idea about "super-strings" which are basically multi-dimensional planes which universes exist on, and when these super-strings collide, you get a big bang.  I don't put too much stock with them, though.

Remember, the big bang isn't so much of an "explosion" as much as "space and time popping into existence, with everything in the universe already contained inside of it."  Of course, if you want to know what "existence" is, you're going to have to talk to a metaphysicist.  Also, asking what happened "before" the big bang is pointless, because time came into existence with the big bang, so there is no "before."

Honestly, though, I can't imagine your professor asking anything more of you other than "the universe started as an infinitesimal point, which expanded into the universe we know today."  The big bang theory mostly describes what happened immediately after the big bang, not the bang itself.  Unless you plan on being an cosmologist or a theoretical physicist, you don't need to worry about it.  If you're taking Astronomy 101, just quote the book, and you'll be fine. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 02:55:12 am by Frelock »
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Strife26

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 01:54:48 am »

And Frelock has beaten me to the punch. APU. And done better than I could have.

Aren't you a rocket scientist Frelock?
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Frelock

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 02:09:36 am »

Well, I am currently a student in an unholy fusion of astronomy, geology, engineering, and mathematics.  So, no, not technically a rocket scientist...yet.  Probably a planetary scientist in the future.  Although the idea of working at JPL or NASA just makes me tingle all over.

It is cool, however, when one of your classes has no lectures after the introductory ones, no labs, and only one class project: deploy a hypothetical array of seismographs on the moon to get the best scientific data possible.  You are allowed to assume that everything you need got to the moon safely, and can get humans (if any) off safely, and that the seismographs are already built, but other than that, it's up to the class.  Building the seismograph is project 1 in the systems engineering class.

It's also awesome when your professor walks into the room with a shirt that says "Actually, I AM a rocket scientist."
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Hungry

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 02:46:42 am »

Frelock your very right quoteing the book is often a good way to go, but avoid plagiarism.

Otherwise you must know what kind of big bang you with to know more about, I can bring up data on any of them, but important to note is that there are many held beliefs all of which may be wrong or right until proven one or other, and even though most people split the beleivers of science into one broad catagory, but even scientists have different views of creation, and to go smaller even big bang theorists split into several different veiws.

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Armok

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 10:07:35 am »

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Nilocy

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 10:24:05 am »

Yeah, i really wanted to get into the physicy stuff when i was younger. Then i realised it involved tonnes of maths. And I hate maths. So I learned biology. But frelock basically hit my views on the head with that nice post.
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Heron TSG

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 11:39:57 am »

If I understand correctly, the Big Bang was a gigantic "explosion" that started everything. What was it that "exploded?"

Everything in current existence (As none of it could have disappeared, according to the law of the conservation of matter), went into a tiny little dot with a volume infinitely close to zero, but NOT zero.

After pressure in the singularity reached a critical point, absolutely EVERYTHING came out in a huge boom. All of it was hydrogen, as the explosion would have ripped apart anything more complex, had there been any.

The giant hydrogen clouds started bonding and coalescing, and soon there were stars, and the stars began creating helium by fusing two hydrogen atoms. From there, more complex materials were created by even bigger stars. (If you'd like proof, note that ginormous stars create cores of Gaseous Iron, while the Sun has a core of Gaseous Carbon.)
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TheNewerMartianEmperor

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 12:04:00 pm »

It is also my understanding that there were things that could not exist at any other time just immediately (as in less then a second) after the big bang, as the universal laws have changed since then.
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Leafsnail

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 12:04:14 pm »

I don't think it would be technically classed as an explosion.  Just a sortof rapid expansion.
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Lord Dakoth

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 01:20:20 pm »

Passing the test isn't so much a problem, I guess... I just really would like to understand it as completely as I can.

I've studied a lot of physics and astrophysics, both on my own and in class, and it doesn't all seem to fit together. Burn me for heresy, but it intuitively seems to me that if there was no time (i.e. nothing was changing) the "universe" would be in a state of equilibrium. Therefore, some external force would have to be present in order for the state of "matter" to change, and therefore "start" the flow of time? Am I making sense here?

If the universe was packed into an "infinitely" dense space, its own gravitational pull would be enormous, of course. Wouldn't you need an equally infinite force to disrupt this equilibrium? Or would force not even exist, because time did not exist, and force has a time component?

I'm not trying to be anal about all these technicalities, I just really want to understand as fully as I can. Astrophysics has been a personal fascination to me for quite a while, and the Big Bang is a hurdle that is rather difficult for me to clear.
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Heron TSG

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2009, 01:44:22 pm »

Well, I'm fairly certain that the big bang could happen again. I'm under the impression that everything that exists has always existed, being made by gravity and heat (Stars), and being unmade by gravity and heat (big bang)
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: The Big Bang...
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 02:06:44 pm »

The big bang is a fairly simple phenomena.  It's what happened last night between me and your mom.
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