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Author Topic: Underground irrigation/drainage/control  (Read 1578 times)

Kern

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Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« on: September 12, 2009, 09:59:38 pm »

I built my fortress close to a brook and I have a farm two z-levels underground that I use to irrigate. I've been playing Dwarf Fortress for a couple of months, but this is one of the first times I've tried anything with water OR multiple z-levels.
I set up a simple irrigation system that takes water from a brook using 2 1-tile-wide hallways, 2 floodgates, and a grate to trap fish. The water is moved a few tiles to the east and deposited into a channel that leads to a large underground reservoir.
The farm (and my well) is connected to the resorvoir, but is seperated by floodgates and can be accessed from the level above even when the brook is flowing into the fortress (same with the well). I took lengthy precautions to avoid and minimize flooding.
What I am wondering is:
1. How can I let water in slower, short of blocking one of my 2 inflows?
2. How can I get rid of unwanted water in my resorvoir? Part of the purpose of this construction was to trap fish and I would like for it to be able to run for long periods of time without my fortress flooding. I channeled out a small area on the surface in an attempt to allow for evaporation, but it doesn't seem to work.
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Albedo

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 10:35:58 pm »

Evaporation only works on depths of 1/7, or in hot climates.

To get rid of water, best bet is to pump it back into the river/brook.

To slow water, try narrowing the access - you were wise in putting in floodgates, so shut them, drain that channel, and put in a wall or two so there's only one diagonal slot for flow.

That's probably the best you'll get, short of doing that and splitting the rest off to divert part of the flow.
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Chewykittens

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 11:04:55 pm »

When I build cisterns I always build a flooding tunnel that dumps extra water out into the open (hopefully back into the river)

Unfortunately, if you want a slow flow, your gonna have to close one of those tunnels. Albedo didn't read your post correctly on that part. 

As for trapping fish, this design is useless for vermin fish. Which is what your limited to because of the brook (only true rivers hold large fish)

However, if at a later fort your looking for catching carp and the ilk, you should dig a separate system that loops back into the river that separate from the main water for the fort.

My suggestion (haven't tried it) would be to route the entire river through the soon to be described plan.  Have 2 or more cisterns that drain faster than they fill. Have one fill and the other drain to air drown the fish inside. Alternate and then pump the water back to it's natural flow.

 

Albedo

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 11:12:51 pm »

And you have some omniscience that allows you to know what others mean when they write? 

(And doncha love suggestions that have "never been tried"?)

The water is moved a few tiles to the east and deposited into a channel that leads to a large underground reservoir.

"A" channel. Singular.  Unless the water is pumped thru (and nothing says it is), narrowing that will help. 

If that's only 1 tile wide already, adding the diagonal will help. 

(Maybe you were the one not reading closely.)  ;)
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Sweedumz

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 11:29:16 pm »

A grate to filter fish? Never tried that. I use fortifications to filter things like that out.

The best way to get the water in slowly would be to have it pool into a wider channel as it enters. Have a one tile wide channel connecting to the river, but have this move into a three tile wide channel, which finally drains into wherever you want it to go. The water should slow as it pools out into the three tile channel. I think.

If you really need to get rid of the water, I'd recommend just digging a small reservoir somewhere out of the way that it drains into. If you put a well over this, the dwarves can slowly drain it to the point where you can simply let it evaporate. Alternatively, you could dig out a wide space for the water to pool into and evaporate from.
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Chewykittens

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 12:15:45 am »

Sorry Albedo, I admit I got a little "high and mighty". I am only just proficient in fluid design enough to keep my fort from being flooded. I failed to think diagonals in my post. 

I've had the design hunkered in my head ever since one of my forts lost a dozen members due to carp. And as soon as I embark on an actual river, I am going to try this method out. (maybe try to use pressure plates for the first time as fluid logic)

Kern

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 12:23:18 am »

Solved.
Thanks for all of your help.
If you're interested, here's what I ended up doing:
z-1
z-2
z-3
My solution is probably terrible, but like I said I'm just today starting to understand the way water works in DF. All I did was dig another reservoir under the first and added like 30 floor grates onto the first one, cut off by walls and a floodgate (I probably would have done this earlier, but I didn't know that water evaporated even if it is not outside).
If the first reservoir is too full, all I do is open the floodgate near the floor grates so that the water begins to drain further underground. If I do this is short bursts, the water can evaporate before the water reaches 2/7 or higher.
(By the way, if all you're going to say is that it looks sloppy, don't post anything)
As for trapping fish, this design is useless for vermin fish. Which is what your limited to because of the brook (only true rivers hold large fish)
I ended up trapping like nine salmon, but that's about it. I don't know if salmon are vermin but it seemed to work kinda.

If you really need to get rid of the water, I'd recommend just digging a small reservoir somewhere out of the way that it drains into. If you put a well over this, the dwarves can slowly drain it to the point where you can simply let it evaporate. Alternatively, you could dig out a wide space for the water to pool into and evaporate from.
Haha, I wish I'd known I could do that before I posted this.

...you should dig a separate system that loops back into the river that separate from the main water for the fort.
I wanted to do that from the start, but I thought it could be done just by carving out two tunnels. The one on the top was meant to go back around and into the brook somehow, but in the future I guess I could just pump it back in from the surface.

The water is moved a few tiles to the east and deposited into a channel that leads to a large underground reservoir.

"A" channel. Singular.  Unless the water is pumped thru (and nothing says it is), narrowing that will help. 

If that's only 1 tile wide already, adding the diagonal will help. 

(Maybe you were the one not reading closely.)  ;)
I don't think I get what you're saying, but it sounds like I was the one who was unclear

EDIT:
Hey even though I figured this thing out, while we're on the subject of irrigation and stuff, I was wondering why if you build a moat that is 3 tiles thick and then put a bridge across, the bridge always breaks? I figured it was just because it collapses after the 2 bridges supporting it are raised, but is there something else going on or some way to get around it?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 12:31:38 am by Kern »
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Malicus

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 01:56:50 am »

EDIT:
Hey even though I figured this thing out, while we're on the subject of irrigation and stuff, I was wondering why if you build a moat that is 3 tiles thick and then put a bridge across, the bridge always breaks? I figured it was just because it collapses after the 2 bridges supporting it are raised, but is there something else going on or some way to get around it?

Are you, for some strange reason, building a bunch of single-tile bridges instead of expanding one bridge to the size you want (with the uhkm keys) before you build it?
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Kern

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 02:18:21 pm »

I guess I am, didn't even realize you could do that.
Wowie, here I was linking all these individual bridges to one lever when I could have just made one
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bluea

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 07:33:55 pm »

There's a thread on "Best Facepalms." :D
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Maw

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 07:36:07 pm »

I guess I am, didn't even realize you could do that.
Wowie, here I was linking all these individual bridges to one lever when I could have just made one

Additional Info:
Bridges will not support other constructions.  You are permitted to build a construction (another bridge*, a floor etc), but as soon as it is completed, it collapses.  This sounds like the problem you have.

Extending bridge size as Malicus suggests should fix your problem.

*I do recall a thread discussing multibridges, but cannot remember the result - someone else may be able to locate the thread though.
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Albedo

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Re: Underground irrigation/drainage/control
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 02:55:36 am »

I don't think I get what you're saying, but it sounds like I was the one who was unclear

It sounded (to me) that what you had was either this:

>wwwwwwww
                 wwwwwwwwwwww>
                 wwwwwwwwwwww>
>wwwwwwww

...with two culverts feeding a larger one, or this:

>wwwwwwww
                 wwwwwwwwwwww>
>wwwwwwww

...with two feeding one of the same size.

If the former, close off half at one point.  If the latter, add a diagonal, like this:

>wwwwwwww
                 wwwwww  wwwww>
>wwwwwwww           w

That's how you "restrict flow".
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