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[durt101]

I modded in the common_domestic animal rabbit, which was working great. However, they were too strong for my hunters (kobolds).
In the end I removed their attack tag, lowered their layering to 10, and removed the bodygloss tag. And they STILL kill my hunters, without an attack. I think it's weird that you can hurt someone when you can't damage them. My hunters don't do any damage at all before they die, like seriously what the hell.
Can someone explain this? How can I nerf them futher?

[Quietust]

It would help to post their full raws.

[durt101]

awright.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:RABBIT]
   [NAME:rabbit:rabbits:rabbit]
   [TILE:'r'][COLOR:7:0:1]
   [PETVALUE:11]
   [LARGE_ROAMING][COMMON_DOMESTIC]
   [PET]
   [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:30:60]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
   [SIZE:1]
   [CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:baby rabbit:baby rabbit]
   [FAT:1]
   [DIURNAL]
   [BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
   [BIOME:ANY_GRASSLAND]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10068]
   [LAYERING:10]
   [MUNDANE]

You have my verification that they work, in every way. They wander around with the icon I designated for them, I can buy their meat/leather at embark and from traders.

[Quietust]

Adding [BENIGN] should make them a bit less aggressive.

[Warlord255]

I'm pretty sure you need to gen a new world before major RAW changes like removing/adding attacks goes into effect. Did you do that before re-testing?

[HAMMERMILL]

maybe add the [CAN_LATCH] tag. like with other animals?

That should keep the bunny latched on and gnawing on a single body part. I have a feeling it might be relentlessly attacking with a bite, and multiple clawing attacks or something.

[Albedo]

It doesn't have an attack, so I'm not sure [can latch] would matter (and doesn't that achieve "automatic" hits, anyway?)

I'm wondering if no attack defaults to something unpleasant.  I'd model it closer to the Fluffy Wambler - maybe the [GNAWER:gnawed] tag?

[Holy Mittens]

Well, all creatures have a default attack if there are none listed in the raws. So removing the attack won't stop it from doing so.

Other than that, I can't figure why it would be giving your hunters trouble. A size 1 creature should be easily killed by anything as big as a kobold, even if totally untrained. Unless they attack all as a pack

[Albedo]

Look at the bones!! 

How many times did you test this animal in combat before deciding it was broken?  There is a HUGE random factor involved in all combat - it's quite possible you were just unlucky (a coin flip, in fact.)

[durt101]

How many times did I test it?
I genned them at size 9 (oops!), and when I used my hunter, I quickly found out. He was kicked to death.
So I bring the size down to 1 above what I think is fair for fortress since I'm kobolds and will only be hunting, not raising any. They're size 3, and I lower the attack from 1:2 to 1:1. My hunter gets a kill with only moderate wounds to one leg! He slashed out the eye and throat of one, being made of win. Apparently this was only lucky, since the next rabbit killed him.
So, like, what the hell? I lower their attack to 0:0, seeing as they're RABBITS, and their size to 2. A dead hunter. At 0 attack. Crap.
I take out the entire attack tag, the bodygloss tag, and lower their layering to 10 for the hell of it. I lower their size to ONE. DEAD. HUNTER.

Seriously, it's ridiculous.
So from your advice, I'm going to put the 0:0 attack back in and add [BENIGN], we'll see how this works out.

[Albedo]

Well, sounds like something's going wrong, but I'd want to see at least about 10 diff battles to get any reliable feel for your expected result.

(You do know there is a specific "modding" subforum, right? Some of those users read this one as well, but some don't.  They might know more than what you're getting here.)

[Kidiri]

Look at the bones!! 

How many times did you test this animal in combat before deciding it was broken?  There is a HUGE random factor involved in all combat - it's quite possible you were just unlucky (a coin toss, in fact.)

Fixed, because in DF coins aren't for flipping.

[Grendus]

How many times did I test it?
I genned them at size 9 (oops!), and when I used my hunter, I quickly found out. He was kicked to death.
So I bring the size down to 1 above what I think is fair for fortress since I'm kobolds and will only be hunting, not raising any. They're size 3, and I lower the attack from 1:2 to 1:1. My hunter gets a kill with only moderate wounds to one leg! He slashed out the eye and throat of one, being made of win. Apparently this was only lucky, since the next rabbit killed him.
So, like, what the hell? I lower their attack to 0:0, seeing as they're RABBITS, and their size to 2. A dead hunter. At 0 attack. Crap.
I take out the entire attack tag, the bodygloss tag, and lower their layering to 10 for the hell of it. I lower their size to ONE. DEAD. HUNTER.

Seriously, it's ridiculous.
So from your advice, I'm going to put the 0:0 attack back in and add [BENIGN], we'll see how this works out.

Interesting. It may have something to do with the kobolds, actually, I have yet to get one to use a bow (which makes Kobold Camp unplayable for me, I need bone and leather to make trade goods)

[Holy Mittens]

Did you regenerate after you changed those sizes?

Testing reveals odd stuff happening where a lot of times, the size of a creature won't change even if you alter the raw files.

[Albedo]

Interesting. It may have something to do with the kobolds, actually,

Good observation. 

You may have tested this already, but have they, in fact, shown they can kill anything?