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[Lord Dullard]

If this works, you MUST tell us, Albedo.

I am already itching to try constructing a dwarf city suspended on a giant ice pillar above the ocean.

Hell, for that matter, it would be pretty rad to construct the whole city out of ice in a freezing biome...

[Bricks]

Fun fact - 0 degrees F is the temperature at which SEAwater freezes.  Yay nonstandard units!

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Fun fact - 0 degrees F is the temperature at which SEAwater freezes.  Yay nonstandard units!

So... 10,000 DF degree?

[Jim Groovester]

Okay, I was idling about in DF while I was waiting for stuff to happen, and I decided to test this.

Freezing water over an ocean is impossible. It appears that the water is artificially kept unfrozen, so it's probably a hack of some sort. This extends over the ocean biome, which includes the water and the sand beach.

I tested this in multiple stages. I pumped sea water directly from the ocean to nowhere in particular, and that didn't freeze. So I built a pump directly on top of that one, just to make sure that the ground wasn't preventing the sea water from freezing. That, too, didn't work.

So I tried pumping towards the mainland, towards the freezing taiga I had settled on. The water remained unfrozen, until it touched the first tiles of the taiga. Then it froze. This was a curious result, so I built a well over the ocean, and had dwarves pour water in various places to see how they would freeze. I also built a well over the aquifer, and tested where water from that would freeze.

If my dwarves dumped ocean water onto the taiga, it would just disappear. If they dumped ocean water over the ocean, there would be puddles of 1/7 water. If I dumped salty aquifer water over the taiga, it would freeze, and if I dumped salty aquifer water over the ocean, there would be puddles of 1/7 water.

So then I performed a final test. Using my two pump tower, I poured water into a small enclosure on the sand that was designed to overflow towards the taiga. As expected, the water remained liquid, until it overflowed onto the taiga, where it immediately froze, thus giving me a pool of water.

So, in conclusion, sorry guys, no ice castles in the ocean.

[alphafalcon]

So, in conclusion, sorry guys, no ice castles in the ocean.

Unless... Ice blocks? Will they "melt" before being built into a wall? Will a built icewall "melt"?

[Jim Groovester]

Well, yes, ice stones (since they can't be made into blocks) can be built over the ocean, and they won't melt, but the point of the thread was to see if natural ice walls could be collapsed to build a smoothable, engraveable ice castle in the ocean. And that won't work, unfortunately.

[Warlord255]

Well, Jim, thanks for running the experiment. Slightly disappointing results, but it may prove useful in the future for creating cisterns.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Okay, I was idling about in DF while I was waiting for stuff to happen, and I decided to test this.

Freezing water over an ocean is impossible. It appears that the water is artificially kept unfrozen, so it's probably a hack of some sort. This extends over the ocean biome, which includes the water and the sand beach.

I tested this in multiple stages. I pumped sea water directly from the ocean to nowhere in particular, and that didn't freeze. So I built a pump directly on top of that one, just to make sure that the ground wasn't preventing the sea water from freezing. That, too, didn't work.

So I tried pumping towards the mainland, towards the freezing taiga I had settled on. The water remained unfrozen, until it touched the first tiles of the taiga. Then it froze. This was a curious result, so I built a well over the ocean, and had dwarves pour water in various places to see how they would freeze. I also built a well over the aquifer, and tested where water from that would freeze.

If my dwarves dumped ocean water onto the taiga, it would just disappear. If they dumped ocean water over the ocean, there would be puddles of 1/7 water. If I dumped salty aquifer water over the taiga, it would freeze, and if I dumped salty aquifer water over the ocean, there would be puddles of 1/7 water.

So then I performed a final test. Using my two pump tower, I poured water into a small enclosure on the sand that was designed to overflow towards the taiga. As expected, the water remained liquid, until it overflowed onto the taiga, where it immediately froze, thus giving me a pool of water.

So, in conclusion, sorry guys, no ice castles in the ocean.

Have you 'purified' the waters first?

IE: Making a huge storage pit that is enclosed by artificial walls and floors, and oceanic waters are pumped there.

Should make them pure water again.

[Jim Groovester]

Have you 'purified' the waters first?

IE: Making a huge storage pit that is enclosed by artificial walls and floors, and oceanic waters are pumped there.

Should make them pure water again.

I doubt that would do anything. Salt water from the ocean froze just fine when it reached the taiga biome, so saltiness isn't the problem keeping water from freezing.

[Quatch]

It seems more that saltyness is a location property, rather than a material quality, seeing as water becomes saline passing through an salt-aquifer level, even with no contact.

Can you make desalinized water over the ocean?

[ikkonoishi]

Or maybe its just because the ocean biome is always above freezing. 

[Niyazov]

The problem with pumping water to form ice is that gear assemblies will freeze in place below a certain temperature.

[Kanddak]

Or maybe its just because the ocean biome is always above freezing. 

Yes, I'd like to see a control for this. I understand that no water would ever freeze in Groovester's ocean biome, but what if there was actually a temperature difference between the ocean and the taiga rather than just a "water in ocean biomes can't freeze" rule?

The problem with pumping water to form ice is that gear assemblies will freeze in place below a certain temperature.

I've never seen or heard of that, could you provide a movie?

[Quietust]

Or maybe its just because the ocean biome is always above freezing. 

Yes, I'd like to see a control for this. I understand that no water would ever freeze in Groovester's ocean biome, but what if there was actually a temperature difference between the ocean and the taiga rather than just a "water in ocean biomes can't freeze" rule?

I actually took a look at this using dtil, embarking in a freezing region that had both an ocean and plains with frozen ponds. While the ponds had a temperature of 10000 (32°F, 0°C) and were frozen, the ocean had a temperature of 9998 (30°F, about -1°C) and was very much not frozen. By comparison, the surrounding stone had a temperature of 10015 (47°F, about 8°C).

[Jim Groovester]

The problem with pumping water to form ice is that gear assemblies will freeze in place below a certain temperature.

I've never seen or heard of that, could you provide a movie?

It's easy enough to try for yourself. Try powering a screw pump with a windmill in a freezing biome. It doesn't have to pump anything, of course, but it won't be able to because the machinery is frozen, and it will display this when you 'q' over the buildings..