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[Sir Finkus]

I've heard a lot of talk about enemies being able to dig into your fortress in the future.  A lot of people (me included) wouldn't like this because it could mess up our forts and we don't want tunnels everywhere.  I do think that there should be a danger in digging into the mountainside however.  My idea I think will let you have the best of both worlds.

Dwarves should be able to take a core sample using a drill, which will reveal the tiles that the drill passes through.

Here's where the digging enemies come in.  Should you accidentally drill into a cave with unknown horrors inside, they'll become aware of your presence and begin slowly digging back to your fort along the drill hole.  You'd have enough time to set up a hasty defense and get the civilians out of the way.  Word of the tunneling enemies should spread through the fort quickly, and civilians should be reluctant to approach the hole to prevent the player from just walling up the entrance.

Of course you can opt to not drill test bores.  The trade off will be that you'll be digging out new rooms faster, but instead of getting a warning and short time to prepare for the invasion, your miners will be in the front lines.

I think it would be an interesting gameplay mechanic.  Right now there really isn't a lot of tension regarding invasions.  While the whole "surprise ambush" thing is good, I also want the whole "calm before the storm thing" as the enemy slowly digs into your fort.

[thobal]

Nice in concept but I dont know why you people are so frightened by enemy tunneling. Its a fortress, not a resort. Resort fortresses can be built in resort type places.

[Mike Mayday]

Nice in concept but I dont know why you people are so frightened by enemy tunneling.

I think it's because they like to stay in control. I imagine some people just don't want to have tunnels NOT generated by them on the map. Tough luck though, because with the upcoming Underground Diversity, those tunnels are gonna be there anyway, the only difference is that they will appear BEFORE embarking, not after.

[HammerHand]

Some people just like their fortresses to look pretty.  Others don't like the idea of having to find a way to defend every single tile, which may or may not be what we're looking at in the future.  Digging enemies might only dig to get around or under your fortress walls/moat, or randomly dig their own holes like a bunch of moles, and end up going through your walls.

One would think that part of defending against such invasions, you could theoretically enforce your tunnel walls so that they are more difficult to dig through.  Mind you, I'm not schooled enough in tunneling or architecture to have any clue on how to do this (except maybe line them with iron, or dig out an extra tile and build walls there?), but it might make a good game mechanic.

I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

[Mike Mayday]

Others don't like the idea of having to find a way to defend every single tile, which may or may not be what we're looking at in the future.

I certainly hope that if tunneling enemies were to be implemented, they would be sufficiently toned down and balanced in order to avoid such a situation.

[Niveras]

As far as digging enemies and enemy sieging possibilities, perhaps DF could borrow a page from Dungeon Keeper, and have smooth floors and walls prevent (in the case of diggers) or slow (in the case of siegers) the digging of the tile. The idea being that smoothed areas have been reinforced, and cannot be easily removed without tools. This would offer a solution for the careful and methodical player interested in doing things his way, though it requires additional investment (e.g. a working engraver, probably before you'd start doing it otherwise), and is not a guaranteed safeguard given soil tiles. Though if you're really cautious, you can dig out extra width in your soil areas and wall/floor them all manually.

I am not sure what's to be done about digging down through the ceiling, though.

[Sir Iryn]

The squares could be labeled as "Makeshift Tunnels" that could be repaired through the Designations menu. This would allow the best of both worlds. A tunneling enemy, and the ability to return your fortress to an unaffected state.

I like the idea of smoothed walls slowing down the enemy (Was a huge fan of Dungeon keeper) But perhaps you could also allow the ability to make reinforced walls on top of smoothed walls kind of like Engravings currently are, except require some metals for the reinforcing process. Iron, Copper, Bronze, Steel, etc. This would likely make it a chore or a serious economic choice (In maps with low metals) to fully secure every section of your fortress.

[Murphy]

Some people just like their fortresses to look pretty.

But the fortresses already can't look pretty because of all those different-colored stones suddenly coming up when you dig your halls. And you can rewall damaged sections of your fort anyway. And siegers would only tunnel if your fort is completely walled in, so the player does have control over this.

[Sir Finkus]

Some people just like their fortresses to look pretty.

But the fortresses already can't look pretty because of all those different-colored stones suddenly coming up when you dig your halls. And you can rewall damaged sections of your fort anyway. And siegers would only tunnel if your fort is completely walled in, so the player does have control over this.

Well there will also be enemies in caves and such if I'm reading the dev updates correctly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And of course there's those pesky &s

[buman]

If you want to keep your fort pretty then you could build it in an area where your not going to get attacked by diggers. Alternatively I'm sure there will be a option in init to disable digging. In DF you are meant to lose, not turtle in your ivory tower, it shouldn't be on easy mode by default.

[Atarlost]

I'd have three levels of digging:

• Dwarves and possibly humans can dig stone and smooth walls and fortifications.  You should never be generated at war with anyone who can dig stone in the default game. 
• Goblins and humans if they're not stone diggers can break through rough walls and fortifications.
• Anything with hands can dig soil. 

Individual attackers might also require the digging skill and a pickaxe or in the case of elves a big flat ended stick rather than everyone digging, and probably should, but the possibility of diggers appearing in any siege should be present subject. 

[Granite26]

No matter what happens, dev has said you'll be able to turn off digging enemies, because of the large number of people who like the 'The Sims' their fortresses.

If you complain more than that, you aren't saying you don't want something, you're saying you don't want others to have something.

[orbcontrolled]

The squares could be labeled as "Makeshift Tunnels" that could be repaired through the Designations menu. This would allow the best of both worlds. A tunneling enemy, and the ability to return your fortress to an unaffected state.

I think a simpler idea would be to give players the ability to "construct" natural walls that would act as part of the terrain (looking identical, having to be dug out rather than deconstructed, not deconstructing on cave-in, etc.).
This might not be too realistic depending on how you envision dwarves doing it, but it would allow OCD players to keep their forts looking nice, and undo digging mistakes, while still getting the fun of knowing the enemy could come from any direction.

If allowing that much "landscaping" goes against the spirit of the game (being forced to adapt to new circumstances), then maybe the best solution would be for the community to improve the memory-hacking utilities until they become simple enough that players can just cheat natural walls in as easily as designating them.

[Stephen]

I have no qualms about the destruction of my layouts; I think dealing with holes in the wall left by invading enemies would be an interesting and fun extra challenge.

The possibility of attacks at any and every point in your fortress, regardless of entrances, walls, and fortifications, doesn't sound like quite as much fun.  Even a couple of these enemies in a raiding party could completely change everything we know about battle.  It has the potential to nullify every strategy that used to be generally successful.

But from what I've seen of the game so far, it seems very well-designed.  I'm pretty confident that the actual implementation will circumvent these problems.

[Sir Finkus]

No matter what happens, dev has said you'll be able to turn off digging enemies, because of the large number of people who like the 'The Sims' their fortresses.

If you complain more than that, you aren't saying you don't want something, you're saying you don't want others to have something.

I'm not complaining, I just thought it would be an interesting way to handle the problem.  It would also be useful in other situations.

Drilling holes could be significantly faster than digging tunnels, so you can quickly scout out new layers for minerals or other map features.