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[Granite26]

And people (I'm not psychologist, but it is shown in literature, movies etc.)  tend to kill other people (in madness) to ""compensate"" their losses. ("They killed my Jenny, and nobody understands me, now I'll show you what is it like!")

Are you saying DF is poorly written?

[neek]

I'd have to agree that being popular should have diminishing returns on the value of that friend, but not the value of the social experience. A dwarf will value his only friend more than the social events, but a dwarf with hundreds of friend will not value each friend as much, but will value the social events far greater. This makes sense.

I've suggested this before, and I'll do it again: Leaders need to meet with all their people and give speeches. Leaders love giving speeches, and the people love hearing them (if they're well scripted, if not, then they laugh or get upset.)

[Slogo]

Maybe we just need something as simple as relationships deteriorating and building up.

So have a relationship value between -100 (grudge) and 100 (related/married).

As dwarves interact the value goes up (or down if they argue), as they spend time apart the value gravitates towards 0 unless it's already hit grudge or married. Then have the negative thought of death be scaled based on the value of the relationship rather than just at intervals. Maybe it already works like this I don't know.

Another possible thing to do is have different types of tantrums. Right now is seems like most tantrums are dwarves smashing everything. Maybe some unhappy dwarves should become depressed (do no work), a glutton (eats lots of food), a drunkard (drinks constantly), a thief (steals items and drops them off in random locations), careless (pulls random levers but without breaking stuff/attacking dwarves), abusive (gives dwarves unhappy thoughts through verbal abuse but causes no actual physical harm) and so on. That way a tantrum spiral will dead end a little better and not result in an all out dwarf brawl in your fortress. If that makes the bad moods too weak then the bad moods could spread negative thoughts to other dwarves based on sight (no one likes seeing a drunkard).

[Niveras]

I don't think for the most part the Justice system should be changes to make it more leniant, since it is by far the most realistic Medieval justice system ever used in a videogame (Oblivion's is laughable "You Genocided a whole town, your going to jail for a month!"), so it has a lot of culture. It just needs to be expanded.

It would be nice for Fortress Guards to at least talk to tantrum/berserk dwarves like the mayor (albeit at a reduced efficiency because there are a lot more guards compared to the mayor; they would also presumably have lower conversational skills). The Captain of the Guard could probably be on equal footing as the mayor, or at least not suffer penalty just because he's not the mayor (though he too would probably not have conversational skills as high as the mayor). This only applies if the dwarf hasn't already broken a law; e.g. they're just tantruming and throwing things, but haven't yet defaced a masterpiece or killed someone.

[Granite26]

I don't think for the most part the Justice system should be changes to make it more leniant, since it is by far the most realistic Medieval justice system ever used in a videogame (Oblivion's is laughable "You Genocided a whole town, your going to jail for a month!"), so it has a lot of culture. It just needs to be expanded.

It would be nice for Fortress Guards to at least talk to tantrum/berserk dwarves like the mayor (albeit at a reduced efficiency because there are a lot more guards compared to the mayor; they would also presumably have lower conversational skills). The Captain of the Guard could probably be on equal footing as the mayor, or at least not suffer penalty just because he's not the mayor (though he too would probably not have conversational skills as high as the mayor). This only applies if the dwarf hasn't already broken a law; e.g. they're just tantruming and throwing things, but haven't yet defaced a masterpiece or killed someone.

Nice

[Rowanas]

Like coppers do? (British) Policemen ALWAYS talk before they get violent, because randomly cracking perps is a bad idea. Having a chat, understanding the situation and inviting the criminals down to the station is how almost all street crimes are dealt with. The dwarven system is more judge Dredd than any real copper.

[Granite26]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or naive

[Rowanas]

Hey, neither. I take a great interest in the local coppers (even to the extent of asking them awkward legal questions and learning their names) and I spend a fair number of nights out in town. Observation of the police during both night and day has provided me with lots of evidence to the point that they rarely use force. I've never seen a real-world policeman even go so far as to draw any of his defensive aids, or engage in a physical disagreement with anybody.

Granite, american cops might shoot first, but the British haven't abandoned civilised conduct quite yet.

[Granite26]

I will admit to ignorance of British police tendancies... I guess I'm willing to give them the benefit of your argument, if not my doubt

[Neonivek]

Yes but British Policemen grew out of a community aspect. For example they were expected to light all the lamps in the entire city.

These are the Fortress Guards, they have no obligations towards the community. (though they do eat where everyone else does. There is no "Fortress guard Kitchen") and are even expected to defend the Fortress if it is threatened.

[Niveras]

Like coppers do? (British) Policemen ALWAYS talk before they get violent, because randomly cracking perps is a bad idea. Having a chat, understanding the situation and inviting the criminals down to the station is how almost all street crimes are dealt with. The dwarven system is more judge Dredd than any real copper.

Well, yeah, the guard will beat you down and lock you up if you actually break something (inanimate or otherwise). Do they react if the tantrum dwarf is just running around, before he breaks a 'law'? I'm just considering a way to make them semi-useful.

For added Fun, if your fortress guard has abysmal conversational skills (which they probably will), there could be a chance the tantrum/berserk mood will rub off on the guard rather than calming down the offending dwarf.

[Rowanas]

Mwhahaha, so basically what most of you appear to be saying is that Fortress guard should be like Judge Dredd, not policemen

[Neonivek]

Mwhahaha, so basically what most of you appear to be saying is that Fortress guard should be like Judge Dredd, not policemen

I think a less fictional example is that the fortress uses Magistrates rather then Policemen.

Which appears to be true.

[Rowanas]

I disagree. Judge, jury and executioner sounds exactly like the Fortress Guard.

[Neonivek]

I disagree. Judge, jury and executioner sounds exactly like the Fortress Guard.

That is a Magistrate... Judge Dred didn't invent that sort of Legal System.