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[Neonivek]

Even though a lot of people call Athens a democracy and indeed in some ways it is.

It excluded most of its population from being capable of voting. Women, Children, Immigrants, the poor (sorta), Slaves.

Also "Elected" doesn't mean Democracy. Most of the times it means Republic.

[Dvergar]

Athens was a true democracy because all of its voting citizens voted directly for their candidate, everybody was required to vote and there were no representatives.  US is a representative democracy.  There is my rant.

Now...Although different governments would be cool, there is a problem, like I mentioned in my thread on government, the current system is a placeholder, the nobles don't actually "do" anything important.  The dwarves themselves don't differentiate between noble and non-noble, skilled crafter and lowly peon.  Dwarven culture is 100% equal and unbiased, all nobles are figureheads and you (meaning the player) are the totalitarian boss.  If you decide that everybody must be drafted and jump into some magma, they will do so willingly.

In short... DF would be better off as a "god game" rather than sim city meets Rome Total War

[Neonivek]

everybody was required

I wonder what percent of the population had voting power in Athens.

Though Athens was flawed in a few ways. Quite seriously you could be kicked out of athens just for being disliked or for the Athenian citizens knowing little-nothing about your profession. (Yes I know it is ethnocentric for me to say it was a flaw)

Which could be cool ways to do Civs. Have people collectively decide just to kill you because they dislike you but for it to be in the legal system and not a loophole (Like Stoning sometimes was)

[Granite26]

I wonder what percent of the population had voting power in Athens.

My understanding of democracy is that it doesn't require universal sufferage...  In fact, in my bitter old age, I'm starting to doubt the efficacy of universal sufferage.

[Dvergar]

My understanding of democracy is that it doesn't require universal sufferage...  In fact, in my bitter old age, I'm starting to doubt the efficacy of universal sufferage.

True that    Honestly, all that hard work for women's suffrage, black's suffrage, and nobody votes, and/or votes unintelligently, simply picking the party of their father or mother.

[de5me7]

agreed, alot of people i know (im 22) vote roughly the same way as their rents. Political opinions seem to be most hereditary.

[Granite26]

agreed, alot of people i know (im 22) vote roughly the same way as their rents. Political opinions seem to be most hereditary.

In my mind, people vote 90% simple moral choices, which are hereditary (and that's ok).

Free market performs better but yields uneven results... is this ok?  Abortion kills unwanted fetuses but grants women sexual freedom and respects the privacy of individuals.  Worth it?...

That kind of thing.  Not trying to start a debate, just framing the big arguments where a rational person is making a value judgement and not finding a 'right' answer.

[Servant Corps]

You can predict vote on demographics, but family effects are only one aspect, and it fades away when a person grows older and get exposed to different influences. People with High School education and doctorate education lean democratic, people in the middle lean republican. People with high incomes lean republican, people with low incomes lean democratic. People who go to church often lean republican, people who don't lean democratic. Young people lean democratic, old people lean republican.

It's not bad, it's just is.

And, I wonder if I can argue that termination of unwanted elves grant drawfs ecological freedom.

[Granite26]

To a certain extent, though, education and income are predicted by family...

[Neonivek]

a rational person is making a value judgement and not finding a 'right' answer

Well that is where justification and rationalisation comes into play. Properly done a politician or someone in a possition where their oppinion/findings matter can make ones that injure you seem like a good idea.

So in terms of gameplay a Mayor who is found lets say, siphoning money to the Merchant's guild (lets say the Mayor is actually a member of the Merchant's guild who used their money to get into power), he then will attempt to convince others that it is actually a good idea and that it makes their lives easier.

Then there is removing morality or inserting it.

So in terms of gameplay perhaps the Mayor doesn't even try to say that giving money to the Merchant guild is a good thing to do. Maybe he has the right to do so.

Heck in terms of gameplay the King kills a merchant because he charged him too much. Why does the king get to do so? Because he is the king! and that is good enough for the people.

[Hortun]

With the game's current mechanics, it seems like no matter what kind of government you implemented, it wouldn't matter. In the end you make all of the executive decisions for your dwarves, and the nobles really only implement annoying mandates.

[Dvergar]

With the game's current mechanics, it seems like no matter what kind of government you implemented, it wouldn't matter. In the end you make all of the executive decisions for your dwarves, and the nobles really only implement annoying mandates.

I could only imagine something like this FAR into the future, a whole voting process would involve a dwarf actually having to "think".

[Neonivek]

There doesn't actually have to be voting in such a formal way.

There could be a sort of unconscious voting where people's oppinions put them in places of power and their social skills convince people that everyone else likes that guy.

A television example of super high social skills: The Popular girl. NO ONE LIKES THEM IN THEIR OWN SHOW! but they are the popular girl.

[Dvergar]

But that would be no more than a placemarker wouldn't it...

Why bother until late into the production of version 1

[RandomNumberGenerator]

I suppose I chose a bad name for this. I wasn't concerned about governments so much when I made the post, but rather I was thinking about revolting from the mountainhome, and forming a new government(like the US did). It should have had more focus on revolutions and less on government.