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[Vester]

Yeah, this has come up before... personally, there are some folks on the forums I would trust with mod powers, but the official stance (last I heard) is that abuse of power would be too likely to risk it. Also, there's the question of how the mods would be chosen; a vote system would almost definitely be abused in some way, and Toady/ThreeToe simply picking people out could breed resentment/animosity based on their selections.

I still think the people on here are incredibly civil and mature on average, but it's a shame Toady has to deal with our crap when we aren't.

If we do go that direction, I nominate Footkerchief. He's one of the sanest people here.

I wasn't around for VN, but you guys make it sound like /b/'s little brother, and I'm inclined to believe you. However nowadays people don't post porn or whatever, and intolerant language usually gets you shunned. The only real problem with General Discussion, to use an example, is that threads sometimes get derailed, but when the OP says to stay on topic, people do stay on topic.

Derailment happens all the time. The main part of the forum (the DF board) is in no way free of it. So really, scrubbing the non-DF related boards is going nowhere.

[Mike Mayday]

Well, only Toady would be able to say whether GD is indeed a much bigger part of the problem.

[Granite26]

If you want to know what and where the problems are, go to Toady's profile and read his latest messages.  If it's not DF related, it's a problem.

[Mike Mayday]

Well then, the latest problems:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41277.msg741431#msg741431
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41325.msg746965#msg746965
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41227.msg739637#msg739637
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40914.msg739630#msg739630
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41263.msg738444#msg738444
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41040.msg731584#msg731584
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41053.msg729974#msg729974
So, out of these seven last signs of moderation, ONE was a person misbehaving in the b12 section. The others all had to do with "Finally...". I didn't bother to look further, I'd say we have a WINNAH here.

[Jackrabbit]

Well, if it absolutely comes to that, he'd have to move them, in a quick transition like you said, which I think would take up time. Locking them would be catastrophic. I know most of the people for a lock in this thread don't head into 'finally' but until the new version is out, heap of people come to the forums simply for that section. Locking it means losing a fair few people.

[jaked122]

There are at least 6 people on this forum that have nothing better to do(from the number of users).
So, six mods=2 per sub forum, and that means, yep, that'd do it.

[Greiger]

Well there's always Kurtulmak lord of kobolds.

Hopefully saying his name outside of his home won't have the same effect of bringing down his wrath.

And Johnathan S. Fox, now that I think of it.  They're both moderators.  They just stay in their own little sections.

[Mike Mayday]

Well, if it absolutely comes to that, he'd have to move them, in a quick transition like you said, which I think would take up time.

Not move- copy. Once the copy is ready, the GD forums here would be replaced with a link to the forums there for some time, to make a smooth transition. Don't see a problem here. The only problem I envision is having the GD people to set up their own server.

[Jackrabbit]

Well, the only problems I see are the work for Toady setting it up, which apparently won't be much, and the fact that moderators probably will change the entire place.

Still, it's not for me to decide. I'll wait to see what Toady says.

[Armok]

I go almost exclusivly in Finaly, And it's NOT as simple as locking or even moving it. Locking it would make me, and probably sevaral others, VERY resentfull, posibly to the point of spite, hate, or some other kind of malice. Moving it would be basicaly as same as locking it, because only abaut half of the peaple would actualy folow it there, and that would not be enought to maintain critical mass of an active comnity.
Also, "there are oter sites on the net were you can talki instead" is NOT a valid argument, the OPOSITEwould work, discusing DF somwere else or so, but the socail sectaions are SOCIAL, you cant just replace one freind with another, the B12/VN is a culture that many feel they are part of and that couldnät simply be repalaced by something else, and we have carved out niches of knowing eachoter, an entire memosphere of our own almost, and none of those things could be transplanted somwhere else.

[Jackrabbit]

I go almost exclusivly in Finaly, And it's NOT as simple as locking or even moving it. Locking it would make me, and probably sevaral others, VERY resentfull, posibly to the point of spite, hate, or some other kind of malice. Moving it would be basicaly as same as locking it, because only abaut half of the peaple would actualy folow it there, and that would not be enought to maintain critical mass of an active comnity.
Also, "there are oter sites on the net were you can talki instead" is NOT a valid argument, the OPOSITEwould work, discusing DF somwere else or so, but the socail sectaions are SOCIAL, you cant just replace one freind with another, the B12/VN is a culture that many feel they are part of and that couldnät simply be repalaced by something else, and we have carved out niches of knowing eachoter, an entire memosphere of our own almost, and none of those things could be transplanted somwhere else.

Dammit Armok, I'm on your side when it comes to keeping the finally section but saying things like that undermines your points. Civility! Civility!

[Footkerchief]

If we do go that direction, I nominate Footkerchief. He's one of the sanest people here.

I'm honored, but I really wouldn't be comfortable with it.  From what I've seen other places, it's extremely hard for community moderators to avoid becoming estranged from a community.  Plus, I don't think mod powers would make me more effective at what I do around here (except maybe in Bug Reports, but even there I'd just want to rename threads).  It doesn't seem like a worthwhile risk.

My impression is that GD etc. are starting to do a better job of staying chill and self-moderating, which is good.

Not move- copy. Once the copy is ready, the GD forums here would be replaced with a link to the forums there for some time, to make a smooth transition. Don't see a problem here. The only problem I envision is having the GD people to set up their own server.

I don't think a quasi-official offsite forum is something Toady wants.  Granted this quote was about the new VN, so his answer might depend somewhat on the nature of the forum, but there are still obvious liabilities since he won't have control over whatever happens there.

Concerning linking the "new VN" forum, I'm not going to do that.  If people can't stop themselves from posting whatever, they can leave.  I don't want to be associated with what's going on over there.  [...]  I'm not sure I'm even going to tolerate links to the new VN anymore.

[Enzo]

Ninja'd by Footkerchief, but I'll say it again anyway.

I think Toady might feel uneasy associating himself - to the point of linking - with another forum that he does not directly monitor. That's just my impression. It's the reason he removed the IRC link, in a nutshell. But...let's not talk about the IRC debacle  .

[Mike Mayday]

Ah, damn, didn't think about it that way. In any case, the problem isn't hopefully all that big.
EDIT: although the link to the offsite forum would only be there for a short time, to tell the regulars about the move, so I don't see how that would result in Toady being associated with that forum.

[Toady One]

Also, the comment I made was directed at all of my non-DF-programming-but-related-to-B12 activities.  Moderation is usually a pretty small part of it.  There was nothing today, if I remember, unless you want to count this explanatory reply.  At other times, it can take me more than an hour to read several pages of a thread and compose a reasonable reply.  But mostly it's other stuff, like email and so on.  People have a way of writing lengthy emails and PMs that require thought or code-diving, and there are donation rewards and so on to handle, though Threetoe is taking most of that burden now (one of the reasons he doesn't write more stories for the site is that he's writing ASCII art reward stories all the time).

In any case, there are other difficulties with forum moves.  Things have been pretty well in "Finally..." for the most part.  It's all pretty okay.  I can't just copy the full database for somebody else, since it contains private information.  Aside from giving people some community things to bond or fight over, I think having that section keeps some derails out of the DF section, since people aren't as inclined to go on long tangents over non-DF matters.  The DF sections are generally very good, unless people just haven't been reporting stuff up here and it's gone all to hell.  I don't get much of a chance to read the non-bugs non-suggestions not-my-threads sections anymore.