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[dakarian]

Words to live by.  For the survivors, take the words of a fallen townie as material to start investigations, NOT as the final product to kill.

For the one about to fall though, it's the best you can do for the town.

[Jim Groovester]

Can I get critique of my play by any chance?

From my limited experience as a beginner Mafia player, I think you played excellently.

Day 1, however, you gave an enormously suspicious tell, when you were happily talking about arranging lynches. I don't remember the particular post, but it was in response to the Free Beer and major_sephiroth pissing match. The general gist was, "I think at least one of them is scum. We can safely lynch both of them today and tomorrow, and be in good standing come Day 3."

That really made me suspicious, but all your other behavior didn't make me suspicious at all. I was surprised you were the mafia at the end! (Partly because I forgot about that tell in the course of the game.) So, I guess, congratulations.

[Leafsnail]

Another piece of advice - if you're a towny, you shouldn't worry too much about NKs.  Remember, you're trying to help the town, not necessarily survive.  In fact, if you're thought of as useful enough, the mafia may not kill you since they're worried about a possible protection.  And if you do die?  Well, it's not the end of the world.  Someone was probably going to die that night, and you possibly deflected the kill away from someone with a PR.

[dakarian]

Free Beer:

You started off with random voting, then was one of the first to start the investigations.  That's a Good Thing.

The 'you are rolefishing' was a stretch, however, there wasn't much of a reason to ask for a roleclaim here.  The only answer would've been Townie, which would show nothing.  The "we're sure you aren't townie so you just claimed scum" was a VERY bad stretch.  You didn't explain why he wasn't a townie.  Yes, he answered the question poorly, but that's not enough to lynch: only enough to keep more pressure on them.  Being overly 100% sure of your lynch being scum is also dangerous:

I did the same thing.  I had accused two people of being mafia based on the information I pulled.  I was somewhat sure of on, but I was "100% sure" of the other.  I was so sure that, when tugged, I gave up a true, blue mafia lynch (the 'somewhat sure') to go after someone I KNEW was mafia.

Turned out the one I was gunning for was the Doctor. 

Also, the one that 'nugged' me which caused me to change focus: it was the other mafia.


There's "you smell funny" which should bring about questions/accusations.  There's "I'm ready to see you die" which should bring about the demand to lynch.  Then there's "I KNOW YOU are scum!".  When you get there, you need to pull back because you're lynching a townie.

The point to aim for is "Even if there's a chance at it, I can't see him as anything else.  I'm ready to bet our chances that he's scum."  Note there's still the 'shadow of a doubt there'.  You keep that so that if your argument starts to falter by someone else's debate, you'll be willing to pull back.  Of course, so long as your argument stands you push to kill.  Never, though, get to the point where Nothing will convince you otherwise.

Honestly, that shouldn't have killed you, but by then the mafia got the town to lock on you and Seph.  That way, either the town follows you and kills a townie, or goes against you and...kills a townie.

You see what he did there?



Btw, the bit about debating Sonearage's RL situation isn't helpful, but just distracting.  How a person treats their RL self does NOT determine how their Mafia game face will be.  Sonearage could be a 70 year old male body builder with 5 mistresses and it says NOTHING about whether she is scum or town. 

[dakarian]

Eduren:

Actually: This is to ALL

Go read Eduren during Day 1.  Now, you don't need to mimic him, but I'll say this: his actions are the textbook example of Pro-Town play.  He randomvoted early on, poking at people to find their responses.  He turned to accusations when he found something, yet he was ready to question and comment on things that caught him strange.  The result is clear: he had a strong accusation for Daikron and only turned away when the game was nearing the end and someone else was going to get lynched.

That's why he died Night 1.  He was primed to take out one of the mafia.

Also note, to somewhat contradict the warning about trusted a dead man's text, had Eduren's posts been read you would've saw his push on Daikron, which, if pushed to lynch, would've netted you a mafia.  "Killing off your accuser" is an old scumtell.. so old that most mafia focus on not performing it.  Still, sometimes it nets results.

If there was anything I could say, it would be that putting one more post saying that "although you will vote to get a lynch going, you still feel that there's something wrong about Daikron".  At worst, it would get the town to focus and keep up with your pressure.  At best, it would panic the mafia into keeping you alive and trying to nullify you, which would help you find them better.

[Eduren]

I voted you to get you to speak up on a subject, you did so and said you had 2 votes on you already. I checked it out and it was true so I unvoted. Anymore questions?

Yes, who is your partner?

WHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR?

Wow. Your comment finally makes sense Pandar (other than the allusion to Austin Powers). Did you mean to do this?

[dakarian]

Jetsquirrel:

First off, funny thing: your random vote hit Pandasenic. 

No, you weren't meant to catch him then.  Just funny to see.

What was more telling: Daikron attacked you for it.

Note again: Diakron (scum) attacked you for random voting someone else (who was scum). 

Defending someone is considered by some a very small scumtell.  Thus grats: your first post pulled a scumtell out of the mafia.  That's like getting Ace/King as your first two cards in blackjack.

The problem: You let Panda and Diak pressure you.  It was the Random Vote Stage.  That you had no reason to vote was NATURAL.  The attacks were unfounded and they were just leading you along for the kill.  If someone pushes you for random voting, push back for being paranoid.

Sidenote: note that the ones that are accusing you are BOTH of the mafia.  See what they did there?


In any case, when you posted again, the day was about over so there wasn't too much to go on from there. 

Day 2 Toony grabbed on the case done against you.  Again, it was unfounded due to it being random vote.  However, while you were honest, I don't believe you knew that what you did was Right and that they were Wrong for attacking you for it (note, Toony's quote used for the accusation was still vote hoping)

After that, it was just a matter of defending yourself.  In truth, without knowing about why the random vote was proper, there wasn't too much for you to do.  Along with that, the mafia had the town firm in their hands. 

Thus, you did as well as you could with what you had and were VERY lucky.  The problem is that that 'luck' put you right into a battle with the mafia and no one noticed you were getting slaughtered by them. 

[dakarian]

Twiggie:

Nice random voting to start, although I'm a sucker for comedy in the early day.

A thing on your FOS on eduren.  Eduren is right: Aggression is a town tell, not a mafia tell.  Townies are bloodthirsty and desperate to kill in the day since it's key to their victory.  Mafia don't REALLY need someone to die in the daytime.  The game could go No Lynch every day and the mafia would be all the happier for it.  All they really care about is being just aggressive enough to avoid people killing them.

Thus if someone is aggressive, that's a town tell unless they are using horrible logic. 

Now although you argued similarly towards Free Beer, you were more correct in pointing out that his aggression is showing signs of tunnelvision (not looking at anyone else nor willing to listen to other people's arguments). 

Oh, and don't do the "you'll attack me for this" comments.  I tried that and nearly got lynched.  It makes people more suspicious since it pulls attention towards yourself.  You could've dropped the first half of Sentence 1 and the last sentence and you would've been fine.

Otherwise, you struck hard on Free Beer.  Yes he was town, but you had good reason to accuse and lynch him and, sometimes, that's the most pro-town you can be. 

Day 2, you went risky and defended Jetsquirrel as a town that couldn't defend himself.  Good catch because you were right.  Note that the one saying that you had the wrong idea was the Godfather.  You see what he did there.

However, the mafia had the town taken in.  Even your focus on Seph was part of their plan.  To break out you had to do a scan on EVERYONE in the town, not just the most suspicious.  Easier said than done though.  Just trying to derail Jet's argument was good though.

Day 3, you caught on to Daikron and pushed on him.  You didn't unvote first so you vote didn't count, but a moot point since by then the mafia finished off their plan and the game.

[dakarian]

Sonearage:

I'll start off here: the pokes against your RL self were horrible reasons to accuse you of being scum.  As I said in another's analysis, you could be lying through your teeth about your RL situation and still be town.  Lying in the game is a very VERY anti-town action.  Your RL self, though, has little to do with the game.

In any case

You random voted fine.  Do note that putting a second vote on a person can bring some suspicion but if you take it lightly, you shouldn't face too many problems with it.  Switching the vote to Eduren helped to show that.

One thing about your vote on Daikron, more pressure.  Once you start voting with a cause, make them talk.  Ask questions like "Why DID you pull off of Eduren, just because he asked you a question?" or "So if he's not scum, who are you after now?"  or even "why are you using my homelife to distract us from your scumminess?".  Even if the question is weak, your goal is to get him talking.. defending, emotional.  If you can make him panic over "What is your favorite color?" then that's perfectly fine.

When you came back the debate was on and the town was taking sides.  When I see you write "Who do I vote for" I take it to mean "I'm not sure which one is scum!"  Your gut was right: neither of them were.  Only feel confident when you can firmly say "Yah, I believe he's scum".  Consider it a dangerous sign for the town when you're left having to choose to vote for someone you aren't sure on.  There wasn't much to do Day 1 from there but when Day 2 comes around, come in knowing that the town is being manipulated and a change of plan is needed.


Day 2, you had a strong reason for going after Major.  Yes, he was town BUT your reasoning was sound and you were willing to give them out when asked.  That's pro-town.  Major's 'brush off' remarks afterwards were NOT a good defense against you so holding to him was fine.

Day 3 it sounds like you started seeing him differently.  You'll notice that a person's behavior can tend to fit in as either town or scum, even if it appears 'pro-scummy'.  That's when you have to try to figure out the person behind the game.  If his hyperdefense seems to be genuine, there is a chance he could be just a Paranoid townie (which he was).  When you see that, look back and go "if I put aside his hyperdefense, what else is there?"  If you have nothing, start scanning at other people.. see if someone else catches your eye. 

However, by then, the mafia used that hyperdefense to their advantage.  Daikron and Pandasenic played Good Cop, Bad Cop just to give a reason to dump both votes on you while Major jumped on you in a OMGUS way.  There wasn't much of a way to break that.

[dakarian]

Diakron:

Your early Day 1 leaves me saying this; You take things too seriously.

When you voted on org for random voting, I thought you were being comical. "OMG a random vote against random voting"  Your unvote, though, showed that you were actually trying to attack with suspicions.  The push on Jet confirmed it.  Very dangerous.  ULTRA DANGEROUS because your attack on Jet was a defense against your scum partner.  That's not only a scumtell but a link tying the two of you together.  Remember that random voting is light hearted and easy with lots of silly votes for silly reasons.  Keep your tone like that until you see someone doing something 'wrong'. 

The push on Eduren was fine, contrary to Eduren's speach. His questions were, actually, just an attempt to shake you.  The idea is that townies would take the shake and keep on accusing while scum would run away.  You pulled out, showing that you were being defensive.  That's what caused the folks to go after you.  When you accuse, keep on them.  Be aggressive.  Answer the questions then keep the pressure on them.  Refer to yourself as little as possible.

If you read Sonearage's analysis you'll see me say that your pushes on her RL were poor reasons to accuse her.  The good thing is that your goal ISN'T REALLY to mark her scum but to get the pressure off of you and it worked pretty well.  I think panda kept the pressure on you to make sure the situation wasn't left in the air (to be picked up later).  It was a gamble but your desire to answer questions and explain your cause helped ruin their arguments. 

The bad joke at the end is...well. I'll put it like this: it made you look bad, which saved you.

I can show it like this.. what if I was playing and, first post, I say "I AM MAFIA!!!!!!"

First instict is for people to bandwagon yes.. but eventually, people would say "What sort of person would do something like that!?   Meh, he's just a fool" then walk away. 


That was what your joke did.  It made everyone roll their eyes, say "meh, he's just playing wrong" and walk away.  Odd how that works, huh?

After that, you voted for Free Beer with a decent reason.  The timing could've caused some suspicion but no one noticed.  Just be careful to try not to be that 3 or 4th vote unless you are willing to take some heat later on.


Day 2, you and Panda were running the town to aim at two people, using Major as a centerpiece.  That lets you be more bold and do things like accuse two people at the same time.  The town just ate it up.  You were also good at catching missteps the others would do, which is pro-town.

Day 3, you and Panda complimented each other well.  You pushed hard on Sonearage to keep her defensive (the argument was flimsy but whatever works) and the early pressure on Major caused him to join you in finishing off Sonearage.  People started to get suspicious but with Major with your support you were able to ride it all the way through.


So overall, when you are calm you defend yourself well and are good with the attacks.  You need to clean up your early game to make it less hostile and make sure not to be cowed by counter attacks.  Remember, you are supposed to be a reckless townie, full of rightousness and aggression.  When you bite someone, make them GIVE YOU a reason to want to let go and don't let their petty kicks distract you from their throat.

[dakarian]

Tiring...that was.

Alright, with that out of the way, I'll move on.  Starting up Beginner 3.

[Eduren]

Dude, that was pretty cool. I salute your ability write really long posts.

[Diakron]

my whole plan was to keep pandarsenic safe. i have an... interesting... past with how i played and knew that if i kept with that toony would stay off me, but if i played like i did in day 2 then he would instantly jump me.

 i go into each game with a fresh view of everyone and judge them anew, but most people look at the past. I believed that there was a cop and a doctor all along (play it the hardest way is the only way) but did not know panda was my partner in crime till after i defended him lol. (i had forgotten)

[Pandarsenic]

I'd bet hard cash that if Free Beer flips town, the mafia will leave major_sephiroth alive to incriminate him.

We have a world of WIFOM ahead of us.

Also, many experienced players consider LyLo to be a flawed policy, with that article obviously only having been touched by its supporters. While that applies more to games with roles that retaliate on death or when targeted, it still remains the case that major_sephiroth may be a townie trying to bait the mafia or a cop/doctor failing massively at being inconspicuous.

Or m_s could be a Goon and Free Beer could be a townie who's right. Or they could both be scum, forcing a day 1 bus to try to clear whichever of them survives.

m_s, I won't blame you for the OMGUS vote on Free Beer, just for reference.

ROFL TERRIBLE TYPO

[Pandarsenic]

Also, I'm going to do my own running commentary soon, speaking frankly on all players. Look forward to it.