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[Sir Pseudonymous]

If you're just looking to assemble and paint, not play, just go for whatever kits you think look best. Personally, I think the new Dark Eldar models and a few Chaos Daemons (Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Bloodcrushers, etc; basically any that don't just look silly or shitty) look the best, but that's all down to personal preference.

Books? Eisenhorn or Ravenor, Ciaphas Cain; people say good things about the Horus Heresy books; Gaunt's Ghosts is also highly praised, though I found the first couple of them quite mediocre (although compared to most Black Library books, that's high praise ), and never read further than that. Same author as Eisenhorn and Ravenor, though, so I assume he got better at writing as he went along, so maybe the later Gaunt's Ghosts books are better (the second is especially bad, consisting of a mixture of a shitty (and fairly short) story and an anthology of short stories that were apparently published in White Dwarf interwoven into it to drag out all the boredom as much as possible)

There are much worse deals out there than war gaming, but why make it worse for yourself and buy hugely expensive lumps of plastic when you can get much less expensive metal ones?

Generic "soldier with gun" is better than "alien in batshit armor with some crazy weapon", because it's made of lead instead of plastic?

1. Tactics beyond stay behind cover and bombard the enemy/run towards the enemy and be bombarded come into play. This makes flanking, advancing from cover to cover and holding certain positions useful. For example, infantry that have found and fortified a building are going to be near impossible to destroy with an all-out attack, and as such you will either need to call in an air strike, pin them down with a hail of bullets or provide them with some bait while someone else sneaks into the building and takes them out. Now, let's take that situation in 40k: firstly, you can't fortify your position. Now, let's say that you shoot at them; they have a 4+ cover save or their armour/invulnerable save, which for space marines is 3+, making cover actually impractical due to the vision blocking. Alright, let's call in an air- wait a minute, there are none! Okay then, due to the fact that a solid brick wall won't give them any advantages we will simply stand in the open and out shoot them or attack them from the outside of the building where they would, realistically, have the advantage... Yahoo! They're dead!

You're talking about a game with machine guns that fire rockets and solid slug autocannons that can chew up tanks. A brick wall isn't going to do much against a modern assault or sniper rifle, why would it fare better against a fucking rocket?

2. Assaulting is horribly imbalanced towards characters in 40k. A single special character can easily take on an entire enemy squad in close-combat and win! As such it becomes a battle of the characters when more than one is involved, and the rest of the army is simply there to provide meat shields.

Most such characters cost more than any unit they could hope to take down alone, aside from monstrous creatures (not that there aren't units that make them look rather pathetic, like deldar wyches with shardnets, or a deldar archon with huskblade (preferably escorted by wyches to reduce the incoming attacks); nine bloodbrides with shardnets with an archon with huskblade, soul trap, and clone field outmatch the 280 point Swarmlord in melee, by a long shot if they've been hunting carnifexes so the soul trap is full... and cost about 13 points less than it)). A T3 or T4 character with three or four wounds isn't going to last long on its own. Not to mention that in close combat they can be individually targeted, so even if they're with a unit they're not safe.

3. Everyone is incredibly brave in 40k. Oh no, my entire army has been killed leaving just a single model! Whatever, he'll just stand in the open and shoot at them while they rush towards him/shoot at him.

That's... kind of the point. Everything is either a batshit insane mutant that lives only to kill shit (space marines), a batshit insane alien that lives only to kill shit (orks and tyranids), a hardened veteran that knows there's no surrender or escape (almost everything else), or a lifeless robot that only exists to kill everyth-wait, no, those last ones do run away...

4. Okay, this isn't a rules complaint but in 40k almost all (not all) players are immature pre-teens that have never finished painting an army. They are incredibly annoying to play against and their models make the game look like crap.

Those just play magic the gathering around here.

5. 40k Apocalypse is annoying. Individually moving every model will get repetitive after a while (FoW models come in teams of up to five per base) and it is just the same tactics as the regular game, but with more models! In comparison to FoW where (without taking into account the additional rules) good large scale tactics will dominate. For instance, say you take the 40k tactics into a Total War game and find yourself some cover and sit there, you will immediately be bombarded with aircraft attacks and artillery shells whilst the enemy sticks a bayonet in your face. No, you need to plan out your battle, keep your machine guns and tank destroyers on top of a building or hill to fire over the rest of your army whilst the main force is split up into two self-sufficient companies that flank your enemy.

Considering the point ranges for apocalypse would run someone several thousand dollars, I think it's safe to admit that yes, 40k is geared towards smaller scale games. And?

There are many more reasons but I think you get the point as to why FoW rules are better than 40k rules.

They're different, because they're trying to do different things. 40K is science fantasy, it's meant to be absurd, batshit insane, and epic. FoW is a WWII wargame. It's about normal people with rickety tanks shooting at each other, then dying.

Now, on to painting: You'd think that painting 15mm models is harder than 28mm models and upon thinking that you would be wrong. I thought that the transition would be painful but 15mm models are actually much nicer to paint as washes, etc. have a much larger effect. The process of painting 15mm miniatures is also much more pleasant due to the fact that you don't have large areas to fill with paint, a gun is covered in two strokes and clothing is basecoated with no more than ten (to get in all the detailed crevices). The infantry comes as solid lumps of metal, requiring no assembly and the tanks are customisable due to the fact that they require assembly only of the tracks and parts that are suitable for customisation (gun, flaps, hatch, etc.).

I've never seen the tanks, so perhaps they are nice looking, but they're still not flying boats careening about shooting lances of energy at shit.

[Omegastick]

Okay then, so you are saying the only thing that can make a wargame worth playing is how crazy and futuristic the people in it are, regardless of rules or any sense at all? Alright, I'm making a game about Death Stars fighting eachother with huge-ass rockets and even bigger aliens covered in spikes shooting lasers at the Death Stars. Those are the only units in the game and they are currently all represented by balls of paper that I will charge £9999999999999999 for... each. Because I'm a nice person I'll include the whole rulebook in this post:

1. To start you place the models on the table.
2. Both players roll a dice.
3. Whoever rolls the highest wins, if both players roll the same then it is a draw.
4. Both players then sit down, silently for an hour to make the game last longer.

Come one, pay up, I just made your perfect wargame because it has huge aliens covered in spikes and machines shooting lasers and blowing things up, they also never run away.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Okay then, so you are saying the only thing that can make a wargame worth playing is how crazy and futuristic the people in it are, regardless of rules or any sense at all?

No, I'm saying that a WWII game played with generic lead pieces doesn't interest me. Just like Space Marines or Necrons don't interest me. 40K does what it sets out to do well, of course it's going to make a shitty medium to reenact WWII. I'm sure FoW would fail just as hard at doing science fantasy.

[Dohon]

... Also, can anyone recommend a good first book to read to get me into the lore(played the pc games, but still feel like I am missing a lot? ...

Since the Black Library has tons of books, I would suggest picking a book that features your "favourite" race. Since you are starting out, Imperial Guard and Space Marines novels would be a good start. Most of the Library is about Space Marines and Guardsmen. And Inquisitors. The human perspective. Even a few chaos ones. So, in order to give you a few starter:

Space Wolf: Actually, there are 6 stories in total, collected in 2 omnibuses. Written by William King, they follow the initiation of Ragnar Thunderfist, from his humble beginnings to his current position as Wolf Lord. While the Space Wolves aren't your typical chapter of Space Marines, they do make for a great start. Lore is explained gradually and King is capable of gripping you by the throat right from the start. Very engaging characters. You even got a prominent Space Wolf who is more like a dorf from DF than a space marine!

Ultramarines: Also 2 omnibuses by now. Well-written, but less heavy on the lore explaining.

Horus Heresy: 13 books and counting, this is perhaps the best place to start (if you start with book one). All the major events of the greatest defining point in WH40K are explained, as well as several figures that are in the current times no more than myths and revered ancestors of the past. While I'm still slogging (with a smile on my face, mind!) through the whole lot, it is indeed worth it. Every book is written by a different author, most of them veterans of the fiction.

More advanced books. If you know the major keypoints of the fluff (what is a space marine, what is the Horus Heresy, ...), you'll have more fun with these:

Ciaphas Cain: Also several omnibuses (see the pattern here?). Written from the viewpoint of a Commissar, humour plays a big role in these novels. Especially witty at times, you'll be chuckling your way through the novel. At least, I did. It does drop one right in the middle of the lore and you'll scramble a bit to keep up. But once you have a novel or two under your belt, these make for some very entertaining stories. It's not all giggles though and you'll root for the slightly ... odd Commissar Cain.

Storm of Iron: Not an omnibus for a change. This book tells you the viewpoint from The Other Side: Chaos Space Marines. Well, not entirely, but you do feel who the protagonists are. Chaos has its lure and you'll feel its pull as well. You'll even start to like the Iron Warriors. That is, if you can like a big bunch of smart, cold, selfish, cruel and cunning bunch of heretics!

Gaunt's Ghosts: This was my first stop into WH40K. 12 books and counting, this is the longest running serie so far. Abnett is my favourite author and while Sir Pseudonymous wasn't a huge fan, I do recommend reading one of those. Preferably the first one, since one novel builds upon the other, plotwise.

Titanicus: I don't know how well you know WH40K, but Dawn of War did feature Titans. And when you say titans, you say "Battlemechs a la Warhammer". Huge, lumbering beasts of mass-destruction, this novel is all about the big boys. It also goes deeper into the intrigue of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the fanatical cult of machine-priests.

Double Eagle: If you like airplanes, you'll like Double Eagle. Dogfighting galore!

Execution Hour: A personal favourite of mine. The Imperial Navy, with its battleships and cruisers, fights a desperate battle in the Gothic sector. The Planet Killer is coming and the Imperium rushes to save a doomed planet. But Captian Leonid not only has to face the heretic without, but also the heretic within.

Heroes of the Space Marines: A collection of several short stories, all starring Space Marines. While the quality can vary greatly, on the whole, it is a good book, filled with heroism and tragedy.

Crusade for Armaggedon: This novel actually has 3 major points of view. Imperial guard, Space Marine and some Imperial Navy too!

I'm gonna stop here. The list goes on and on, ofcourse. But, if you want to start with the Lore, first read the Lore blurbs from the Space Marine, Imperial Guard and Chaos Space Marines Codices (especially the first one). Pricey books and useless if you don't intend to actually play the game, the lore that is in those books is still a very large part of their composition. The facts are there. You can also skip that step and go directly into the Horus Heresy serie. You'll learn along the way.

CAUTION! Warhammer 40K is addictive. I started out with WH40K with Dawn of War and quickly bought a Codex and a book. Now I have all the codices from this and the latest edition, a few overflowing bookshelves and to make matters worse, I started reading into the Fantasy branch as well. It is gritty, dark and heroic, but it will eat your wallet, puke it out, eat it again and still will try to take your money. The moment my home burns down, is the moment I will cry many man-tears for my collection.

EDIT: Many, many mistakes in post. Brain too sleepy. Apologies.

[hemmingjay]

Everyone- Thank you for your help and advice. Stopped in to a local Games Workshop and was greeted by an excellent manager who took a lot of time during a busy time to explain a lot to me and generally make me feel welcome.

Dohon - Damn impressive knowledge and I agree about the addiction. I used to devour the fantasy Warhammer rulebooks in my younger years and loved the brutality and dark nature. Especially the Troll SLayer Dwarves. I'll be hitting you up for some info soon I'm sure. Thanks again.

[Archangel]

Is it worth it to get the hobby starter set?

What's in it?

Nine pots of paint, some plastic glue and PVA glue, a set of plastic cutters, a paint brush, and some stuff for decorating bases. Link.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Oh, I ran across it after Omegastick linked to the space marine pieces, but got a bit distracted. Yeah, it looks like it's probably worth it, assuming you'd be buying those things separately anyways. Nine jars of paint comes out to $33, plastic glue is about $7, don't know about a single paintbrush or the cutters but the other stuff is all about $8 a piece, so it works out to something like $70 worth of materials for $50.

[Detrevni|inverteD]

Man, I think England actually gets GW stuff cheaper than America. There's a first time for everything I suppose.

Maybe something to do with the fact GW was founded in England.

[Detrevni|inverteD]

I'm the worst kind of heretic. I paint without primer, or a base coat, and use non-citadel paints. I used lacquer car paints from some random store brand. I also use Popsicle sticks to mix, and toothpicks to paint.
And the worst part is, it doesn't look bad.

I'm interested in seeing some pictures!

EDIT:
Oops. Sorry for the double post, completely forget I even posted in here a few minutes ago.

[userpay]

Man, I think England actually gets GW stuff cheaper than America. There's a first time for everything I suppose.

Maybe something to do with the fact GW was founded in England.

I don't know where their producing the models but by this it could be entirely possible that their producing them in England and the higher prices in America is a result of import taxes.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

All the boxes I've seen have proclaimed that they're made in the USA. And the jars of paint claim to have been made in France. If they're comparatively cheaper in the UK (I don't know what they're generally priced in pounds, nor the current conversion: it was something like $1.6 to the pound when I last checked, while looking at Forgeworld models (all I remember is single units of DKoK infantry came out to something like $65 for ten models (and if you use DKoK rules instead of running them as normal guard, you need hundreds of models... holy fuck I wish I had the kind of money to piss away like that...))), perhaps they were priced when the pound was stronger, and they haven't bothered correcting it?

Edit: meant "cheaper in the UK," not US.

[userpay]

All the boxes I've seen have proclaimed that they're made in the USA. And the jars of paint claim to have been made in France. If they're comparatively cheaper in the US (I don't know what they're generally priced in pounds, nor the current conversion: it was something like $1.6 to the pound when I last checked, while looking at Forgeworld models (all I remember is single units of DKoK infantry came out to something like $65 for ten models (and if you use DKoK rules instead of running them as normal guard, you need hundreds of models... holy fuck I wish I had the kind of money to piss away like that...))), perhaps they were priced when the pound was stronger, and they haven't bothered correcting it?

Ah good point, thats most likely is the reason.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Bought a Ravager, another Raider, and another Wych squad last night, and spent today building the wyches. It took as long as it did because I cannibalized spare CCW arms to make bayonets for their pistols (it looks cool till you think about how inane it is ), and hacked apart a few other pieces to make an extra hydra gauntlet and an arm holding a spear at a proper angle. About to paint to the ravager now...

[Detrevni|inverteD]

I found a mod for Operation Flashpoint the other day that incorporated most, if not all of the units and vehicles for the 40k factions that it encompasses into the game. Looks pretty cool, if you can stand the fact that OFP is almost a decade old now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESjbIdhbqtc

[Jackrabbit]

Wow, I love Flashpoint. Seriously. I mean, I only played the demo, but I loved it. This rocks.