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Author Topic: Warhammer 40k  (Read 173767 times)

Pnx

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2325 on: August 10, 2010, 10:22:32 am »

That space marine player seriously underestimated his marines armour. Probably would have done more damage charging forward and dropping the dreadnought after :P

Of course, I play orcs, so that's roughly my tactic for everything.

"BOSS, DA HUMIES GOT A DREDDIE AN WE CANNAE HURT IT WITH AR' CHOPPA'S"

"Out da' way! WAAAAGGGHHHHHHH"
No no no, it should be
"WE CANNAE HURT IT WITH AR' CHOPPA'S"

"Well chop harder then! WAAAAGGGHHHH!"
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2326 on: August 10, 2010, 11:56:39 am »

That space marine player seriously underestimated his marines armour. Probably would have done more damage charging forward and dropping the dreadnought after :P

Of course, I play orcs, so that's roughly my tactic for everything.

"BOSS, DA HUMIES GOT A DREDDIE AN WE CANNAE HURT IT WITH AR' CHOPPA'S"

"Out da' way! WAAAAGGGHHHHHHH"
He tried running a rhino down one flank of the map, which had three main avenues separated by buildings. A lascannon killed it while it while it was beside the building on his side, and the heavy bolters drove the marines inside into hiding on the ruin. The dreadnought tore up the main infantry quad with a flamer, and then killed even more of them when it blew up. This had no effect on the game whatsoever, because the heavy weapons were what kept them from advancing.

Edit: The problem with Space Mary-Sues is, besides being painfully boring and possessing the tactical acumen of a sledgehammer, they're expensive as fuck all. So they lack the numbers to charge a heavy IG emplacement, despite their T4 and AP3+.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 12:24:08 pm by Sir Pseudonymous »
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

mothra

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2327 on: August 10, 2010, 12:18:20 pm »

shit,time to look in the attic and see if I left my models up there.hopefully didn't throw them away.
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rickvoid

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2328 on: August 10, 2010, 12:46:27 pm »

Quote from: Sir Pseudo
You have weak anti-armor. The lascannon has a nice 66% chance of hitting, but it's only one gun. You're probably not going to see too much armor/high T units (ones with a high enough T to need an S10 weapon to deal with) in a 500 point match, but it's still a very real possibility (most people field at least a token piece of armor, simply because it requires a special counter to deal with).

The commissar's going to die if used on his own in frontline combat, because he's a high priority target. He might be tough as nails, but weight of fire means that statistically he'll be hit, receive wounds, and fail enough saves to be taken down. His strengths are mainly in shoring up other infantry units.

I'm also generally wary of putting too many options in a single unit, though I'm not sure how well founded this is.

I figured the Plasma weapons would work on the Armor as well. And I suppose the Commissar should just stick with his squads. Hmm.

Maybe I should cut back on the points used by the Commissar and Vet Squads, and invest in a heavy weapons squad. I'll play with that at work this afternoon, and put together another 500 pointer.

I also need to play with Vassal a bit. Don't want to be fumbling around with both the rules and the system when I actually play somebody. :D
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dwarfguy2

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2329 on: August 10, 2010, 12:55:22 pm »

want to play but really? 90 bucks for the starter set?
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rickvoid

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2330 on: August 10, 2010, 01:04:35 pm »

want to play but really? 90 bucks for the starter set?

Go to 4chan. Go to RS. Search for Vassal 40K. Download file Vassal 40K.rar. There's a Tyranid expansion as well, but I haven't looked for it yet so I don't know the file name.

Get a Rule Book and pick a Codex for the army you want to play. Don't tell us where you got them, we don't want to know.

Start posting 500 point army's and asking questions. Read through this thread, if you can stand it.
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dwarfguy2

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2331 on: August 10, 2010, 01:38:36 pm »

i want to do this legally and with no 4chan, thanks.
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Servant Corps

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2332 on: August 10, 2010, 01:51:26 pm »

Vassal 40K is legal, I believe. It's just that you have to pay money for the codexes to understand the rules.
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2333 on: August 10, 2010, 01:53:06 pm »

Quote from: Sir Pseudo
You have weak anti-armor. The lascannon has a nice 66% chance of hitting, but it's only one gun. You're probably not going to see too much armor/high T units (ones with a high enough T to need an S10 weapon to deal with) in a 500 point match, but it's still a very real possibility (most people field at least a token piece of armor, simply because it requires a special counter to deal with).

The commissar's going to die if used on his own in frontline combat, because he's a high priority target. He might be tough as nails, but weight of fire means that statistically he'll be hit, receive wounds, and fail enough saves to be taken down. His strengths are mainly in shoring up other infantry units.

I'm also generally wary of putting too many options in a single unit, though I'm not sure how well founded this is.

I figured the Plasma weapons would work on the Armor as well. And I suppose the Commissar should just stick with his squads. Hmm.

Maybe I should cut back on the points used by the Commissar and Vet Squads, and invest in a heavy weapons squad. I'll play with that at work this afternoon, and put together another 500 pointer.

I also need to play with Vassal a bit. Don't want to be fumbling around with both the rules and the system when I actually play somebody. :D
Plasma works alright on light armor, but its main use is against heavy infantry (with a vet squad, each gun would have a 55% chance to kill a space marine (counting the 4+ to hit and the 2+ to wound, with no armor save because plasma is AP2) (and a 16% chance to kill the soldier with the gun)). Heavy weapon squads also need to be taken as part of an infantry platoon (which counts as a single troop choice). I personally recommend Vendettas, because for 35 points more than a lascannon squad would cost, you get three twin-linked lascannons (so three shots, each with a 75% chance to hit) and two heavy bolters, all in a nice 12/12/10 armor platform, that also happens to be a fast transport skimmer with the scouts special rule.

A single vendetta with heavy bolter sponsons would leave you with 150 points to spend on upgrading the lord commissar and veteran squads.

Also, on the difference between autocannons and heavy bolters, since they both cost the same but autocannons have the higher S: autocannons are useful against light and medium armor, as well as any enemy with T5 or above. Heavy bolters are the better choice for T4 and below.

At T5, an autocannon will inflict an average of 1.66 wounds per turn (adjusted for hitrate: 1.11 at BS4, .83 at BS3), minus any armor saves better than 4+. Heavy Bolters will inflict an average of 1.5 wounds per turn (adjusted for hitrate: 1 at BS4, .75 at BS3), minus and armor saves better than 4+. At T4, the autocannon still only inflicts an average of 1.66, but the heavy bolter climbs to 2.

Against an armor value of 10, an autocannon will score a glancing hit on a roll of 3, and a penetrating hit on 4+ (meaning .33 glancing hits, 1 penetrating, adjust for hitrates on your own, BS4 has a 66% chance to hit, BS3 has a 50%). A heavy bolter scores a glancing hit on a 5, and a penetrating hit on a 6 (.5 glancing, .5 penetrating). Against a value of 11, the autocannon scores a glancing on a 4, and a penetrating on a 5+ (.33 glancing, .66 penetrating), while the heavy bolter can score at best a glancing with a roll of 6 (.5 glancing, no penetrating). An autocannon can still inflict damage at a value of 12, glancing on a 5, and penetrating on a 6 (.32 penetrating, .32 glancing). I don't recall any values of 13, and at 14 an autocannon can't even inflict a glancing blow.

want to play but really? 90 bucks for the starter set?
Search 4chan's /rs/ board for "vassal". The things you want are "Vassal 40k.rar" and the tyranids 5th extension, which adds counters for the new units.

Sadly, I can't tell you here where to find scans of the rulebooks and codexes, but they're just about everywhere, if you know where to look.
i want to do this legally and with no 4chan, thanks.
Vassal 40k is legal. It's called fair fucking use. The project was illegally shut down with harassing cease and desist letters from GW, which the creators, despite being in the right, could not fight due to the exorbitant costs of legal counsel. Sadly, there's no penalty for such things, since then rich corporations would actually have to exercise caution and restraint to stay within the bounds of the law, instead of rampaging about with flamboyantly anti-social bullshit like this.
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

dwarfguy2

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2334 on: August 10, 2010, 01:55:34 pm »

i repeat: really? 90 bucks for bare-bones rulebook, a large pile of generic minis from two generic factions, unmarked measuring sticks and some random pieces of green plastic?
edit: i'm thinking of painting tyranids, chaos daemons and necrons all black and turning them into a "shadowfiend" type faction thing.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 01:59:43 pm by dwarfguy2 »
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nenjin

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2335 on: August 10, 2010, 02:02:42 pm »

want to play but really? 90 bucks for the starter set?

Quote
i repeat: really? 90 bucks for bare-bones rulebook, a large pile of generic minis from two generic factions, unmarked measuring sticks and some random pieces of green plastic?
edit: i'm thinking of painting tyranids, chaos daemons and necrons all black and turning them into a "shadowfiend" type faction thing.

By agreeing to play a Games Workshop war game, you agree to over paying. That has been true with GWS since the 80s. You either accept it, or you go play one of the few dozen 40k knock offs out there that are much cheaper. (But not as GRIMDARK.)

You can bargain hunt the main rule book and codices...but if you want an army that actually looks like a 40k army, be ready to drop a lot of $$. Even their plastic casts are ridiculously over-priced, like $30 for a small squad of Tact marines with some options (last I checked.) $30+, easily, for any vehicle. (And as the size or swarminess of the army increases, i.e. Tyranids and Orks, so does the price. Want a basic, starter Tyranid force? Games Workshop would love to sell you one for $100!)

There's a reason I never got deep, deep into 40k. I didn't have the requisite $300 to deploy a diverse army. If you want to play 40k on the cheap...

a) Never go to an official GWS store, or buy from their website. Those are sucker prices.
b) Seek out gaming shops with older stuff. They won't discount it a lot, because GWS gouges them almost as bad as they gouge customers (I can't count the number of game shop owners that have lamented about doing business with GWS). But they'll usually discount discontinued lines of figs just to get the shit out of their store.
c) Never play with die-hard GWS fanatics or tournament players. They will demand obnoxious shit like no proxies, accurate kits on each fig, and all that crazy crap that GWS pushes to drive up sales.
d) Buy someone else's figs. It takes 1/2 the joy out of it (for me), but they're painted and way cheaper.
e) Start small. Everyone wants to jump into 40k with a big army, but then balks at the cost. Start with a few hundred points of figs and play some simple games as you build up your force. Also good for learning.
f) Substitute. Proxies work, but they're fugly and they do get confusing. I have a pair of friends though who cannibalized a bunch of figs to make their own Chaos armies. Add in some cheap modeling putty and there's a lot you can do to make cool stuff. Hack a few official GWS pieces on to cheaper figs. Many game shops have "sprue bins" where a lot of miscellaneous crap ends up. Go picking through it and find some base sprues to start working on.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 02:06:49 pm by nenjin »
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Servant Corps

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2336 on: August 10, 2010, 02:03:03 pm »

Quote
Vassal 40k is legal. It's called fair fucking use. The project was illegally shut down with harassing cease and desist letters from GW

Then it's illegal! Cease and desist means exactly that, and Games Workshop needs to defend its intellectual property! Gah!
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dwarfguy2

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2337 on: August 10, 2010, 02:11:08 pm »

should i go through with the shadowfiend idea?
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2338 on: August 10, 2010, 02:17:35 pm »

Quote
Vassal 40k is legal. It's called fair fucking use. The project was illegally shut down with harassing cease and desist letters from GW

Then it's illegal! Cease and desist means exactly that, and Games Workshop needs to defend its intellectual property! Gah!

No, it is legal, under fair use laws. Just because you sent a cease and desist letter doesn't mean you're automatically in the right.
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Warhammer 40k
« Reply #2339 on: August 10, 2010, 02:22:25 pm »

Quote
Vassal 40k is legal. It's called fair fucking use. The project was illegally shut down with harassing cease and desist letters from GW

Then it's illegal! Cease and desist means exactly that, and Games Workshop needs to defend its intellectual property! Gah!
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. V40k is non-commercial, wholly transformative, uses only a tiny portion of the copyrighted material, and has a negligible or positive impact on the market for 40k shit. Therefore it is unambiguously fair use. Trying to shut it down with harassing letters is illegal, though sadly not the kind of illegal that carries penalties. >:|
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.
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