Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cthulhu]

Yes there have been graphics upgrades for Vassel.

As for the Blood Angels, they're not as OP as some of the people make them out to be. Yes, they do have scout outflanking baal predators that can take heavy flamers. Yes they have deep striking land raiders. Yes they have a librarian dreadnought. Yes they have a HQ choice with insane stats, but they are not impossible to beat, they still have weaknesses.

Plus, deep striking land raiders are not all that impressive considering how big they are and how often they would mishap.

Yes, they do have scout outflanking baal predators that can take heavy flamers. Yes they have deep striking land raiders. Yes they have a librarian dreadnought. Yes they have a HQ choice with insane stats, but they are not impossible to beat,

Yes they have a librarian dreadnought.

librarian dreadnought.

wat

[Luke_Prowler]

I thought I heard someone say something about a Dread with psychic powers. I could be wrong.

[Neruz]

By the way Luke, because of the way 40K works, 'Overpowered' does not mean 'impossible to beat'. Nothing is impossible to beat without completely ignoring the rules. What 'Overpowered' means is 'Gets more\better shit per point spent than everyone else.'

The Spesh Muhreens have been in this position since around third edition, at least, and it's been steadily getting worse with each edition. It's not that Spesh Muhreens are unbeatable, or even that certain builds cannot reliably exploit their weaknesses and defeat them, it's that a generic 1000 points worth of Spesh Muhreens will flat out have more and better stuff than a generic 1000 points of any other army.

[moghopper]

By the way Luke, because of the way 40K works, 'Overpowered' does not mean 'impossible to beat'. Nothing is impossible to beat without completely ignoring the rules. What 'Overpowered' means is 'Gets more\better shit per point spent than everyone else.'

The Spesh Muhreens have been in this position since around third edition, at least, and it's been steadily getting worse with each edition. It's not that Spesh Muhreens are unbeatable, or even that certain builds cannot reliably exploit their weaknesses and defeat them, it's that a generic 1000 points worth of Spesh Muhreens will flat out have more and better stuff than a generic 1000 points of any other army.

except maybe necrons... maybe.

[Org]

Necrons are easy.
My friend was using eldar with my space marines in a 500 doubles match.
He used dark reapers.
Enemy necrons did the teleport thingy.
THey were all bunched together.
Boom.
Lord, and 20 other necrons die.

[Neruz]

By the way Luke, because of the way 40K works, 'Overpowered' does not mean 'impossible to beat'. Nothing is impossible to beat without completely ignoring the rules. What 'Overpowered' means is 'Gets more\better shit per point spent than everyone else.'

The Spesh Muhreens have been in this position since around third edition, at least, and it's been steadily getting worse with each edition. It's not that Spesh Muhreens are unbeatable, or even that certain builds cannot reliably exploit their weaknesses and defeat them, it's that a generic 1000 points worth of Spesh Muhreens will flat out have more and better stuff than a generic 1000 points of any other army.

except maybe necrons... maybe.

Necrons are so underpowered in 5th edition it's not even funny anymore.


They're railroaded into about, oh, one possible tactic. If you don't know how to counter that then yeah, you'll get anally reamed. If you have two brain cells to knock together then you'll see that one coming from a mile away and the Toasters can't do shit about it.

[Luke_Prowler]

But those black bricks are a pain in the ass.

And Neruz, I would somewhat disagree. Yes, space wolves and the blood angels are a bit over the top, but I would never say vanilla marines were OP. They are a bit easier to get into than other armies, but with the right tactics they are easy to beat. so yes there are some things in each new codex that make everyone scream in either joy or frustration, it always comes back to the skill of the player.

[userpay]

Okay working on downloading what appears to be to most recent version of the vassal 40k.
edit:Figured out how to add the extension, mayhaps I'll be up for a game tomorrow.

[Neruz]

But those black bricks are a pain in the ass.

Sure, but they're as expensive as fuck and don't count towards phase out.

And Neruz, I would somewhat disagree. Yes, space wolves and the blood angels are a bit over the top, but I would never say vanilla marines were OP. They are a bit easier to get into than other armies, but with the right tactics they are easy to beat. so yes there are some things in each new codex that make everyone scream in either joy or frustration, it always comes back to the skill of the player.

The problem is that when a pair of evenly skilled players, one using Spesh Muhreens, and one using anything else, both with 'generic' armies, the Spesh Muhreen player will win a statistically significant amount of times more than the other player.

You can see this clearly in the tournaments, where the Muhreens consistantly come in the top 3, and usually win. The other races all dance around a bit, with the exceptions of the Dark Eldar and the Toasters who routinely come somewhere at the bottom, but the Muhreens are always at the top.

[Servant Corps]

I actually wonder asymmetric warfare is modeled in the Warhammer40K tabletop. Perhaps Space Marines are awesome at warfare, but all the other races know that, so rather than fighting them directly, subterfuge is necessary.

For example: The Eldar might lure the Space Marine mob to attack their enemies, distracting the Space Marines while the Eldar engage in securing their objectives. The Eldar can keep on distracting the Space Marines, leading them like a dog to battle each random Ork horde while the Eldars hold onto their objectives for as long as required.

[Neruz]

It can't really be modelled on the Tabletop due to A: meta knowledge and B: that would require Eldar players to be actual real life tactical geniuses.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

What's the most recent V40k? The server connections window in vassal shows the vast majority of people using vassal at all, for anything, are playing v40k 5.2.

It can't really be modelled on the Tabletop due to A: meta knowledge and B: that would require Eldar players to be actual real life tactical geniuses.

I slaughtered IG once with a loldar jetbike army by luring them out of cover with MY AWESOME DISPLAY OF AWESOMENESS obnoxious bullshit that pissed the other player off enough that he abandoned his trench and charged at me across open ground.


Never did like Space Marines, they're just so... bland and generic.

You can see this clearly in the tournaments, where the Muhreens consistantly come in the top 3, and usually win. The other races all dance around a bit, with the exceptions of the Dark Eldar and the Toasters who routinely come somewhere at the bottom, but the Muhreens are always at the top.

Isn't that because 99% of players use Space Maroons exclusively? So, statistically, they're more likely to end up in the top just because of volume.

I mean, I've only seen them used competently once, on a map that fucked over my main advantage (lots of cover for them, making my heavy weapons drastically less useful; also left my infantry swarm jammed into a small area, with no line of sight or fire, allowing the fucker to deepstrike a dreadnought to rape them with a flamer, it also killed a good number when it exploded the following turn when I countered with five autocannons (five infantry squads with the optional heavy weapons, all grouped into one cluster to take advantage of orders)), and even there I did a lot of damage, wiping out one side of their advance with the two heavy weapon teams who had a clear shot.


Fuck, I've got to find some time to play a game or two now...

[Neruz]

Isn't that because 99% of players use Space Maroons exclusively? So, statistically, they're more likely to end up in the top just because of volume.

Actually the tournaments tend to be fairly well distributed across Chaos, Spuse Maroons, Loldar, OrksOrksOrksOrksOrks and Nids. It varies a bit, but generally Maroons don't have enough of a numerical advantage to explain their statistical advantage.

I slaughtered IG once with a loldar jetbike army by luring them out of cover with MY AWESOME DISPLAY OF AWESOMENESS obnoxious bullshit that pissed the other player off enough that he abandoned his trench and charged at me across open ground.

Well i meant as in a common part of the rules. As in any game where a person is your opponent, psychological warfare is a key component.


The Maroons do also have some weaknesses that can be exploited by the savvy player, and covered up by the savvy player as well. It's not like they're unbeatable, or even like a Maroon army will always win, the Maroons are just a little bit better than everyone else. It's not much, not enough to be any real issue outside of tournaments, but it's enough to be really annoying if you know what to look for.

It's doubly annoying when you realise that alot of their OPness could be fixed in GW just remembered to add downsides to their racial rules, like they do with everyone else.

[Sensei]

So, suppose I was interested in getting into 40k.

-What's a good army? I've played Space Marines once before. I was thinking Squats Eldar, maybe. They're long range guys, right? I'd also like an army that's effective with fewer, high-point units than the other way around, mostly for price reasons.

-Is there a way to get models without paying a billion, million dollars?

-Can I play Squats even though they aren't in the game? Do you usually just collect one army, or do you like to spread the love? Do people ever do mixed-army fights?

[Neruz]

I would highly reccomend not starting with the Eldar, as they are basically the "Elite Race", you need a really solid understanding of the game to get anywhere with Eldar.

If you want an army that uses small numbers of high-point units, you're choices are basically Space Marines and Toasters, possibly Chaos Marines.

-Is there a way to get models without paying a billion, million dollars?

No.

Do you usually just collect one army, or do you like to spread the love? Do people ever do mixed-army fights?

How many armies you collect depends on how many of your delicious monies you can stand to give to Games Workshop for unassembled, unpainted plastic toys.